Ageing motorcyclists - what's your plan?

[Motu]

Plans? There are plans for getting old? No one told me,I've been doing it all by myself - I've probably gone and done it all wrong.

[superman]

Who comes up with this crap,be wary of so called "correct technique" there fella,whilst at it be wary of some that profess to know them all.

Oh it was just from that California Riding School place, saw a video on it. Instantly made all the weight go away from the wrists and made downhill cornering much less daunting. Also with the less weight on the front it allows the springs to recoil much more naturally to the road surface.

But I guess if you want to blame your body and switch to a cruiser go for it

[slofox]

Plans? There are plans for getting old? No one told me,I've been doing it all by myself - I've probably gone and done it all wrong.

Yeah. No bugger told me about plans either. Y'know what Pink Floyd said..."No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"?

Well I sure missed it...

[superman]

Yeah. No bugger told me about plans either. Y'know what Pink Floyd said..."No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"?

Well I sure missed it...

And that is why you spend your youth listening to dark side of the moon to ingrain it!... And have women tell you it's like funeral music, silly, silly, women.

[Crisis management]

Can we have a shorter thread please, I've forgotten what the subject was?

[ellipsis]

Plans? There are plans for getting old? - I've probably gone and done it all wrong.

....Im not looking forward to the physical part of how long I have left...my older brother recently told me that , ' if I knew I was going to be around this long, I would maybe have looked after myself better'...maybe...probably not...its been a fun, exciting, frightening life...the only true regret I have, is being born in a time when smoking cigarettes was cool, sexy, not bad for your health, and being surrounded by heavy smokers who thought the same...I feel very fortunate to have been put on the planet when the atlas was a mass of pink and an overland walk, ride, drive was a safe way to get to europe...when a V8 bolted to a chassis was a legal way to move about the place...when a Honda SS90 was a cool thing to own and riding from chch to hokitika on one was just another way to get there...when a pushbike with a fucked chain, bald tyres and only a back pedal brake was a 'mountain bike'...

...the last big off I had at Ruapuna , not long ago, ending up with another broken rib and fucked shoulder, made me consider my durability, more so than at any time prior to that...but it healed and all thoughts of me being past my sell by date, disappeared out the window...the pink floyd lyrics mentioned , 'no one told you when to run, you've missed the starting gun', are very poignant and relevant to me...they are the exact words I told my kids to listen to... I am so happy that my sons dont smoke...are doing there trades and ride motorcycles...but (and everything that comes after but, is bullshit) I do hope they take better care of their bones than I have...

....one of the things that make me smile the most, is being told, often by a younger person with a gut hanging over their belt who have not been a lot further than Auckland or Sydney and their biggest thrill in life is a 51 inch screen in their lounge, that , I am silly, mad or a fucking idiot...even though the thought of the pains I have and the fact that they are going to get a lot worse impinge on my happy thoughts more and more, I still relish all the things I've done to get into this state and I'd probably do it all again...maybe even harder...I'm chasing guys who have twenty years on me and my only hope is that I can be doing it at that age...it will be the frame that lets me down...

[Okey Dokey]

My plan is to use it or lose it. I intend to keep physically active and fit, and stay a healthy weight all my life. As a woman, I see that a lot of older ladies do lose muscle mass and often become frail with advancing age. There may come a day when I just don't feel strong enough moving the bike around, particularly at low speed. If that were to happen, I would look at getting a trike or a can-am thingy so that I could continue to ride and feel confident.

[slofox]

r...I'm chasing guys who have twenty years on me ...

My partner and I still compete on the ballroom floor. I always gloat like hell when we beat couples one third my age...hurhurhur. Some of them get a bit tetchy about it but a lot of them think it's pretty amazing that we are still competitive. The dancing is probably one reason why I'm still comfortable on a sporty...you have to be one helluva fit and it keeps the weight off and the flexibility on.

[Blackbird]

Hello again and thanks so much for all the varied responses. David Hough has found the replies to be a valuable insight to how a wide spectrum of “mature” riders think about riding as they age. I posted on several forums throughout the world and whilst there’s some common themes, there are also significant differences. I guess this comes from particular traits of each national motorcycling scene… the level of training, type of roads, types of bikes and so on.

Whilst “Acts of God” can’t be planned for, the common insights to keep riding into old age are ride regularly, keep your skills up through formal training, keep healthy/reasonably fit and if you need to get a lighter or smaller bike at some stage, just go and do it and forget about “Little Dick” Syndrome! And the other important thing is that when the time finally comes to give up bikes, have a fall-back to put your passions and energies into if you haven’t already got one.

I already mentioned David’s million miles on a bike pedigree so his thoughts are well worth chewing over. I have his permission to publish his comments to me when we were roaming over the whole topic. I haven’t edited them at all and it’s both valuable and interesting to see David’s take on the subject. Hope it stirs what grey matter we have remaining and lets us ride longer in safety.

Cheers,

Geoff

DAVID’S MUSINGS
I had a chance to review the various sites you listed. You can quote, reference, or post anything I've sent to you. Your stirring the pot is producing some valuable feedback.

The Kiwi Biker NZ comments were perhaps the more mentally mature--riders recognizing the important concept that there is no "light switch" moment when that guy in the mirror is suddenly too old to ride anymore. Younger riders seem to depend more on testosterone, and some "western movie" fantasy that they can slap leather now without looking back, and then somewhere way down the road (and too far to think about) get shot out of the saddle at the old age of 65 or 70.

My experience has been that the body ages much like an old bike, a part rusting here, a bearing seizing there. There is no point in parking it--or your body--just because of some partial failure. You get your knee meniscus pruned, your hip replaced, prescription eye glasses, etc. Yes, it's possible for some of us to continue riding aggressively beyond age 70 or 75 or 80. But we can't ignore the continuing degradation of our physical and mental skills. Why do so many posts refer to a lighter, lower bike? Because it's typical for leg strength, mobility, and nerve feedback to degrade, reducing the ability to hold the bike up.

What few seem to have commented upon is that attitude typically changes, as well as physical ability. Where at age 35 or 40 it seemed very important to ride swiftly, I've discovered at "over 70" that riding swiftly doesn't seem as important anymore. Speed is relegated to just one factor in the experience of riding. I can putt along at the speed limit, or even slower on a vacant road, listening to the birds, gawking at the farm animals, or just enjoying the smell of a freshly mown field. I realize that younger, less patient riders might think this is a cop out; that I'm trying to come up with justification for being a wuss. No, it's actually a change in my mindset. So, I'd ask the question: are you prepared for your attitude about motorcycling to change? Do you think you'll get to a point--10 or 15 years down the road--where you'll get just as much joy out of sitting in your garage running your eyes over your machine, or your fleet, without having to start an engine? Would it be fun to trailer a vintage bike to a rally and just ride it around the grounds? Or, do you think you'll always have that need to get on the bike and go somewhere, perhaps even at aggressive speeds?

Friends in Woking, England had moved up to a BMW KLT a few years ago. At about age 75, he bought a Suzuki Bergman scooter, and for a few years they continued to tour Europe on the scooter, doing whatever they would have been doing on the LT but with much less effort and expense. I've lost contact with them. I believe the wife's health was failing, and it just wasn't acceptable for the husband to go riding without her. I suspect if they still own the Bergman, but it only gets ridden into town.

Another friend in the UK rode for years, and at about age 70 dropped his Triumph on some slick paving. He sold the bike, and purchased a sports car. The condition of road surfaces in the UK were too much of a crap shoot to risk on a bike anymore.

Having ridden in NZ, including the Coromandel Peninsula, I'm aware of the great twisty nature of the roads. If I were riding NZ, I'd probably not be on a rigid three-wheeler, because it just takes too much energy to stuff a rigid trike or rig through tight turns all day--even with power steering. A Piaggio MP3 might be a good alternative for those wishing for better stability. Yep, a Miata will take corners as well as a Spyder. But the Spyder is (just about everywhere) a motorcycle, if it's motorcycling that floats your boat rather than just taking corners fast.

My point of raising the issue of aging is that there typically isn't a sudden point where you realize and accept that your current style of riding is over. We like to talk about those aging parents and grandparents who are a danger on the road, and should wake up and turn in their keys. We don’t like to think about being the aging parent or grandparent who needs to give up the keys. I think it would be helpful to come up with some guidelines to assist aging riders to judge their fitness for duty. If you have a nasty crash at age 68, is that a good indicator you are necking in on your riding career? Or will it take two crashes, or three crashes before you get the message that it's time to hang up your leathers? It's not just the pain and recuperation I'm thinking about, but the expense and bother to your family. Here in the USA, I'm covered by Medicare, but there are deductibles. A decent crash might cost me $8,000. When I had to be evacuated by air from my crash in the California desert, the original bill was $38,000, just for the 40 minute helicopter ride. Fortunately, Medicare whacked that in half, and paid 80%. But running up big medical bills is definitely a bigger concern when I hop on a motorcycle than when I'm hopping in the truck.

Into that discussion, we need to remember the role of prescription medications. Prior to my most recent crash, I had been on pain killers for a painful sciatic nerve, in addition to my usual diabetic meds. I have to believe that the optical illusions I was experiencing as the crash happened were a result of the medications. Perhaps I had to learn the hard way, but I'm now aware of the importance of really evaluating yourself prior to a ride. Maybe the ride should be scrubbed, or at least shortened. Definitely I should not have ridden with others who would set a more aggressive pace than I would have ridden on my own under the circumstances.

We might also wonder about the relationship between motorcycling and mental health. Brain researchers are beginning to understand that the aging brain doesn't just lose capacity, although it typically loses processing speed. What's most important is that not being mentally challenged by problems allows the brain to lose thinking capacity. And motorcycling is definitely an activity that requires lots of thinking--both conscious and subconscious. Maybe that old saying is right, after all: "You don't give up motorcycling because you grow old, you grow old when you give up motorcycling."

Speaking for myself, carrying on dialogue such as this helps me keep my brain working.

One of the responses to your aging blog referred to "crossing the bridge when I come to it." That assumes that the aging process is like a road, and the bridge is a decision point, although a bridge is really just a means to zip on across a chasm with impunity. I think it's a natural reaction of younger people to be fearful of addressing the future, not only because it's uncomfortable, but because it’s such an unknown.

I think that attitude is a parallel to motorcycling, where in our youth we tend to throw caution to the wind, and as we grow older we can't avoid remembering all the pitfalls we've seen along the way. The young rider doesn't want to think about the risks. I suspect the issue of aging is like any other--we tend to go into denial when it gets uncomfortable. Let's see, what are the steps of denial? It won't happen to me. If it does happen to me it won't be as bad as they say...etc.

Please do keep up the pressure on this issue. I think we can glean some great ideas from the dialogue. The naysayers are just as important as those who nod sagely.

Several years ago a friend and I were strolling around the grounds of the BMWMOA International rally, pondering what might happen in our motorcycling futures. I asked if there was anything "wrong" with transporting a smaller or older machine to the rally, to provide an opportunity to rub elbows with fellow owners. IOW, would the experience of sharing the passion be just as much fun as actually riding a bike cross country?

Several years later, I found myself in distress just weeks before my scheduled departure for a rally in Wisconsin, give or take 2,500 miles away. My left ankle had gone south (plantar fasciitis or whatever). I could barely hobble around, let alone shift the transmission a few thousand times. Finally, I ended up loading the sidecar outfit on a trailer, and towing it behind the Toyota 4Runner (auto trans). During the several day journey I had lots of time to think about the situation. Basically, I decided that whether riding or driving, I was no longer up to the challenge of traveling thousands of miles to a rally. Too much money, too much time, too much fuel consumed, too much effort...The purpose of the rig was to allow me to travel long distances, so its services were no longer needed. I ended up donating the sidecar rig to the MOA Foundation, to raise money for safety projects, and towing the empty trailer home. I figured the K1/EZS outfit had been paid for by royalties from my book, so it was appropriate to give it back to the enthusiasts.

It used to be that I worried more about the machine failing than myself. Now I'm more concerned about myself than the machine. One of my reasons for getting the paddle-shift Spyder was to allow driving it even if my shifter ankle went out. There's a laugh in this. I haven't had any debilitating ankle problems since buying it. And I'm aware that my left thumb could stop working, or my back goes flooey, or whatever. Last summer (prior to my Triple R crash) I had agreed to attend a BMW rally in eastern Oregon. Then because of sciatica, I just couldn't travel at all. I reluctantly had to cancel my seminars. The decaying of my body is prompting me to not agree to be a guest speaker anywhere. I'm trying to resolve this, maybe by agreeing to appear, knowing I might have to cancel (as I did with the OR rally) I suppose as long as they want me to appear, I should continue to make plans, figuring out ways to politely cancel.

Maybe I should encourage the event to have a computer and Skype connection handy, as a fallback plan.

[Ocean1]

Interesting observation about the Syder's limitations on NZ roads. I'd agree, mine was a handfull if you pushed it in the twisties.

Might be another one, one day...

[Brian d marge]

have 3 engines for my Enfield

I need one more frame

and when Im too old and on me last legs , Ill buy an AVL engine with the starter motor


Stephen

[SPman]

Interesting thread. I find, as I get older , my reflexes are slowing slightly, and I'm aware that it's easier to really hurt yourself if you go down - as your age goes up, your survivability chances go down. I'm now riding an "upright" bike, although I still wrap and shoehorn myself onto an RG250 occasionally and it's a ball! I'd still like another 750!
Otherwise - no plans - just take it as it comes. I guess if it all gets to onerous in (far) future years, something like a Piaggio MP3 400 would do the trick.......

[slofox]

When they take me bike license away and I'm relegated to the mobility scooter brigade, my project will be to soup up the mob scoot as far as I can. If I can't graft the gixxer engine into it, I'll look at changing the electric to something ..."interesting" shall we say...

Many years ago, my old aunt was severely crippled with arthritis. There were no electric mobility scooters then (it was the olden days y'know) but she did find a motorized wheelchair thingy - three wheeler powered by some kind of motorcycle engine. It was pretty much enclosed - she kinda sat back in it and I think it was steered by a single stick but I could be wrong on that bit...

Anyhoo, she lived in Christchurch and she quickly developed a "working relationship" with the local constabulary...essentially, they wanted to kick her off the road because she went like hell in it and frightened livestock and little children on a regular basis. In other words, she was a crazed triker when she was in it. She was regularly apprehended for exceeding the speed limit but could not be ticketed because I don't think it had to be licensed in any way IIRC. She also tipped it over on a regular basis and usually had to just lie there until some kind soul came and picked her up again. She was crazy - a mad bat out of hell. But only in that chair...

Pity they don't have those any more...more fun than an electric I bet...

[Ocean1]

She was crazy - a mad bat out of hell. But only in that chair...

Love it.

When they take me bike license away and I'm relegated to the mobility scooter brigade, my project will be to soup up the mob scoot as far as I can. If I can't graft the gixxer engine into it, I'll look at changing the electric to something ..."interesting" shall we say...

I’ve got a 4 bolt smallblock and a 9” diff squirreled away against the day.

[Redmoggy]

Im 33 and i had trouble reading Davids post written in blue against the black!
Since getting hit head on by a truck riding the Sprint to work,i have decided to stick to riding my 60's Trumpets and i doubt i will use my old piss pot hat again. Thats as far as my planning goes.