High-Viz: Have you been hit by a car?

**p.dath** · 23rd February 2011, 11:45

Originally Posted by slofox

Half of the problem with glo vests is that every man and his dog are wearing them - thereby making then less noticeable.

Funny you should say that. I had to do a job down at the Ports of Auckland a couple of years ago. One of the requirements is that anything that moves (such as a car) has to have a flashing light.

The thing is, there were so many flashing lights that I simply started to ignore the flashing lights - as that was the new "normal". It didn't signify anything more dangerous than anything else.

**Neon** · 23rd February 2011, 16:32

One view that is rarely discussed is the effect wearing a hi-viz has on the rider's perception of visibility to other road users. That is, I am wearing a hi-viz therefore I am more visible. A critical error in thinking for a motorcycle rider if ever there was one.

My personal experience is more 'events' while wearing one. That said, I can also testify to a generally positive correlation between wearing a hi-viz and the observed stupidity of other road users around me. The 'L plate' effect perhaps.

**Neon** · 23rd February 2011, 16:37

Originally Posted by Voltaire

Yep,it will be a lot easier to enforce the wearing of a $15.00 bit of orange waistcoat than anything else.

$15? ACC are giving them away to anyone who wants one. Shit, it's like they just found all this extra money from somewhere and don't know what to do with it all!

They are softening us up for mandatory hi-viz. Low cost, easily enforced and ticks all the boxes of the feel-good look-everyone-we're-making-motorcycling-SAFER crowd.

**sunhuntin** · 23rd February 2011, 17:37

i only wear one when i know im going to be out in low light. chances are the top box defeats the purpose, but it makes me feel a little bit safer. doesnt mean i ride with more or less caution than normal.
ive learned to keep my riding the same no matter what im wearing after i tried wearing one day to day, in all weather. i found it turned me into a wuss and had me jumping at everything that moved. that even transferred to when i was a passenger in a car.
soon as i ditched the vest, and forced myself to readjust, my confidence returned. this was after id been riding for a while, including 1 trip to bluff and back, so i wasnt exactly a newbie.

if im going to be loaded down and slower than normal, i often throw the fluoro over the top box and dangle the reflective strip down. im not sure why i do that, but, again, it makes me feel better.

**Drew** · 23rd February 2011, 17:45

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Mr Dath, I generally accept fatally flawed polls as par for the course on Kiwi Biker (Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes? No?) but I expected you to set the bar somewhat higher.

There are way too many variables in car vs motorcycle collisions for some post coital glow that is endeavouring to surmise whether or not fluoro vests may have been a contributor.

In most cases I have observed with motorcycle riders wearing fluoro vests, other apparel and things like back packs, top boxes and pillions can successfully occlude any visibility benefit that may be attributable to a fluoro device.

Fluoro devices, whether for construction workers, cyclists, people crossing the road at night, or whomever, have generally been initially encouraged because people think that they do no harm and may make a positive difference. Then regulators gain heads of steam and, without any quantitative evidence or indeed consultation, make the fucking things compulsory.

The same thing will happen with motorcycles. I can feel it coming.

The hi viz vest is a waste of time on the road and building site, once it's normal, the guy not wearing them stands out more than them who are.

Interesting result from the twelve poll voters though, a third of them have been hit while wearing a vest. Yet, no where near that percentage of all riders wear them. Ergo, you are more likely to be hit by a car while wearing a high vis vest than without.

THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE YA KNOW! Bwahahahahahahahahaha

**Highlander** · 23rd February 2011, 18:05

Originally Posted by Neon

$15? ACC are giving them away to anyone who wants one. Shit, it's like they just found all this extra money from somewhere and don't know what to do with it all!

They are softening us up for mandatory hi-viz. Low cost, easily enforced and ticks all the boxes of the feel-good look-everyone-we're-making-motorcycling-SAFER crowd.

I got an ACC one. The zip broke the first time I put it on and after that it wouldn't do up.
Don't now why I expected better from ACC.

**phill-k** · 23rd February 2011, 18:19

To make the poll more relevant you also need to poll who wears one and who doesn't. I would put money on it that the results will mirror each other, i.e. the vests don't make a crock of difference.

**Voltaire** · 23rd February 2011, 20:52

Originally Posted by Drew

Interesting result from the twelve poll voters though, a third of them have been hit while wearing a vest. Yet, no where near that percentage of all riders wear them. Ergo, you are more likely to be hit by a car while wearing a high vis vest than without.

They do say that you 'steer' with you eyes....if you look at a pothole you will hit it...you have to look away....If eyes focus on the HiVis.....hmmmm

**pritch** · 26th February 2011, 08:32

Originally Posted by Hitcher

The same thing will happen with motorcycles. I can feel it coming.

Your pessimism is noted, but sadly you may be right.

Normally nobody I ride with wears the stuff. I have just returned from a group tour of the South though, and most of the riders were wearing fetching shades of yellow or orange.

I found it useful when arriving in a strange town (and some of those southern towns are a bit strange

) The dayglo stuff outside made it easy to spot the local Cafe...

**rastuscat** · 26th February 2011, 09:53

Originally Posted by Neon

One view that is rarely discussed is the effect wearing a hi-viz has on the rider's perception of visibility to other road users. That is, I am wearing a hi-viz therefore I am more visible. A critical error in thinking for a motorcycle rider if ever there was one.

Right, you've found a remarkably simple way to improve our safety.

Paint your bike and self in invisibility paint, then ride like nobody can see you.

Hold on, why not just ride like nobody can see you, it'll save a fortune in paint.

Donuts.

**Neon** · 26th February 2011, 10:14

I wrote another post about this subject a while back. Common sense tells us that increasing your visibility should result in drivers of other vehicles having a better chance of seeing you. Sadly, what scientifically valid evidence exists does not support this argument.

It is simply not possible for the human brain to process every piece of information it receives into the visual cortex. The brain economises by ignoring most of it and focusing mainly on threats (this is the primitive low-level stuff that we are hard-wired to do). The rest of the picture is 'filled in' by the brain, based on what it expects to be there. Other road users not expecting to see motorcycles is the real issue. Solution = more motorcycles on the road, everywhere you look.

edit: I am specifically referring to daytime use of hi-viz, not low-light or night time use. This is entirely different. Motorcycles can almost literally become invisible in these conditions (particularly from the back), and even more so when weather is unfavourable.

**ops.normal** · 27th February 2011, 21:06

The polling would be more valid with a couple of extra options (noted those who said too many already - sorry

)

To try and correlate data like this options should be:

Wears a vest and hasn't been hit
Wears a vest and has been hit
Doesn't wear a vest and hasn't been hit
Doesn't wear a vest and has been hit.

From my short time riding, I've had a cage pull out in front of me in the early evening wearing no vest - I think they only saw me when my front forks took a dive like Thierry Henry. I haven't had any major scares (touch wood) while sporting the vomit orange.

Another small thing to add to the mix...a mate of mine with a green ute had people pull out in front of him all the time on the open road till he started using his head lights. His gut feeling was colour blindness was at least partially to blame.

The idea of having a dark colour bike like black or deep blue, or a colour blindness colour like the VFR800 deep red might be offset by having a hi vis on. Contrast and movement are the things most likely to be spotted by the human eye.

/drivel

**Smifffy** · 27th February 2011, 22:33

Originally Posted by ops.normal

The polling would be more valid with a couple of extra options (noted those who said too many already - sorry

)

To try and correlate data like this options should be:

Wears a vest and hasn't been hit
Wears a vest and has been hit
Doesn't wear a vest and hasn't been hit
Doesn't wear a vest and has been hit.

From my short time riding, I've had a cage pull out in front of me in the early evening wearing no vest - I think they only saw me when my front forks took a dive like Thierry Henry. I haven't had any major scares (touch wood) while sporting the vomit orange.

Another small thing to add to the mix...a mate of mine with a green ute had people pull out in front of him all the time on the open road till he started using his head lights. His gut feeling was colour blindness was at least partially to blame.

The idea of having a dark colour bike like black or deep blue, or a colour blindness colour like the VFR800 deep red might be offset by having a hi vis on. Contrast and movement are the things most likely to be spotted by the human eye.

/drivel

Additional options:
Cage driving hit rider in a vest
Cage driving hit rider sans vest
Cage driving never hit a rider

**baptist** · 28th February 2011, 07:53

Originally Posted by pritch

Your pessimism is noted, but sadly you may be right.

Normally nobody I ride with wears the stuff. I have just returned from a group tour of the South though, and most of the riders were wearing fetching shades of yellow or orange.

I found it useful when arriving in a strange town (and some of those southern towns are a bit strange

) The dayglo stuff outside made it easy to spot the local Cafe...

You found a use for them!

I have had a car pull out of a parking space and nearly take me out, I was stationary at a set of lights and wearing hi vis, also had a bus crossing two lanes (almost aimed the thing at me) cutting me up big time while wearing one

The jacket I normally wear has different colours on the shoulders, top torso and sleeves, the broken colours make it stand out so not sure how much better a hi vis is. I do always wear hi vis in turn of light and dark / rain conditions just to be safe. When I have my Ventura bag on the bike I do put a hi vis patch on that as standard...

**Theflash** · 28th February 2011, 19:03

FYI: Looks like someone has finally gotten it into their heads that visability for motorcycles and protection is a problem . my daughter got stopped today on Dominion Rd, there was a traffic cop and an ACC worker checking her riding apparel.
They gave her this form (attached I hope) to fill out and send back to them, they said they would send her a High Viz and the chance to win $250 in riding apparel.

If you cant access it, tell me, I'll upload elsewhere.