Can a stock NC30 be competitive?

**Drew** · 4th March 2011, 13:48

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

If they could do it then, on old tech tyres and suspension, why can't it be done now?
Anyone know? Or has the track changed or something?

I don't think they were doing it then, but the track has changed a shit load.

I think the outright lap record for a bike was once set in 1990, and stood for over a decade.

**codgyoleracer** · 4th March 2011, 21:11

They were indeed doing those 13's bak then, but stock they were not.

Track was a bit better nick then though. Track record now at a flat 12 is all but 2sec quicker now, & for a small bike thats plenty faster (even with the modern stuff)

The tiggy shud bust into the 11,s this year

**Paul in NZ** · 4th March 2011, 21:48

There comes a time in every old warhorses life when you wake you one day and realise you are running in the 'masters' class...

An NC30 is a very very good thing - enjoy it for what it is....

**FROSTY:Me** · 5th March 2011, 17:11

Seems to me that the op should get arse on a bike-any bike. and go out and race.
He could be on a total rocketship but unless hes a freak of nature he's unlikely to be at the front of the pack. AND will learn a heap more about racecraft by mixing it up in the midfield

**onearmedbandit** · 5th March 2011, 17:28

Originally Posted by FROSTY

Seems to me that the op should get arse on a bike-any bike. and go out and race.
He could be on a total rocketship but unless hes a freak of nature he's unlikely to be at the front of the pack. AND will learn a heap more about racecraft by mixing it up in the midfield

If he's selling vehicles as a side interest he should be able to get his hands on a better starting point then an NC30. Actually he should buy that 600 you're selling.

**Drew** · 5th March 2011, 17:32

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Actually he should buy that 600 you're selling.

It's a bit pricey, and a lot of bike to start racing on.

**onearmedbandit** · 5th March 2011, 17:36

Originally Posted by Drew

It's a bit pricey, and a lot of bike to start racing on.

Ah there's a link you're missing. Note I'm not calling you the missing link.

**Drew** · 5th March 2011, 17:39

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Ah there's a link you're missing. Note I'm not calling you the missing link.

Noted, I'm not quite so full of myself as to think I'm the one who makes human evolution a possibility.

**blackdog** · 5th March 2011, 17:49

I'm prepared for you all to flame away.

The OP (is it racefactory or ttmadness?) is probably not a bad rider, my belief however is the poor bastard is probably lacking in the ol' IQ stakes.

Why ask questions here when you could pop into the local kindergarten and get an accurate answer.

**onearmedbandit** · 5th March 2011, 18:27

The stock suspension on those is so far from raceable ( competitively ) that any ''tuning'' is pretty much academic. That sounds ''harsh'' but its the reality

junk the forks, junk the shock (especially the shock) and you've made a massive improvement. Theres basic mods that makes them much much better, in both handling and engine, that don't require much effort.

a stock nc30 is pretty slow now days. its good in pre-89 but even then itll prob need mods to keep up with faster bikes (i.e. those with mods). In f3 its a no hoper.

But competitve is a realative term. Its competitive against other nc30's, and all other 400's. Against new kit it shows its age.

^^^^What they said.

If you want to be competitive, buy a sorted ProTwins SV650.

If you just want a trackday bike, use the NC. But bear in mind if its stock it is 20 years old. and look where the rear shock is (right there by the rear headers... it gets HOT in there), and how tiny the shock is. (esp the first gen non remote reservoir shock). And the forks too. If you're spending money on one, start there. bring money.

It's all been said but there's one more thing too....
When you race one of these standard you may well spin a big end bearing...
Back in the day the first two to be raced in ChCh both did big ends - looking at them the problem was poorly finished oil holes on the journals.
In the motor the first step should be properly radiusing the oil holes. Then re clearance to the max available in the shell range - they're way too tight standard.

I quite agree....

the two that appeared on track in ChCh were low Km imports which were very good tidy examples - couldn't tell you the year of manufacture.
I said big ends and that's what I meant...this was at the tail end of the period where VF hondas were doing cranks commonly.
The cranks I saw at the time were poorly finished - good enough for road use but sustained high revs and heat showed up the lack of attention to detail.
Interestingly enough, "ordinary" VF400 shells fitted - Casbolts didn't have anything at all on the model - not even a parts fische at the time.

Anyone know what happened to the two bikes the Roberts family had ?
Those were seriously trick - but not enormously quick...

There's lots of NC30's around making up the mid/rear part of the F3 fields. To be at the front of F3 you need to start with a big pile of someone elses money and go from there.

As for Posties Junior, they do better in there but still, you'll never win unless the 600's etc blow up.

The great thing about the 400's is they can do Pre89 and F3.

Depends if you want to be super competitive or do 2 classes and be happy having a battle down the feild

I would go with 2 classes and more track time

..............as long as they arnt back to back races

So, going internal

1) Forks. Race Tech emulators with a modification specific to road race / track day. Remove and machine damper rods so they actually assemble more concentrically within the tubes. Ohlins springs fit straight in. Bera in mind that there are likely wear issues with bushings etc, not apparent until stripped

2) Rear end. Respring at minimum, Ohlins springs often fit these with minimal adaptation. Some of these NC30 shocks are rebuildable, some are not. If it is rebuildable the stock shock piston has tiny ports and needs to be thrown away as far as possible. If its got a 46mm bore body tube we can fit an Ohlins piston and valving which actually does a better job than Race Tech, but we would also fit a Race Tech flow seperator which mimics an Ohlins shaft jet. BUT, the rear ride height in these needs lifting up considerably to attain track day / road race geometry so youd need to find some way of lifting the ride height on what is a fixed length shock.

The above is the absolute mimimum to achieve a decent standard of grip, geometry, tyre life etc.

It's bang on the money actually.

I had a good old time on my stock 89 CBR400RR in post classic junior (2nd at Vic Club to Chris Sales on his hot rod XR500 ), and F3, giving the SV's and hotted 400's (440-450) a run (top ten at club level). But you're never going to win on it. Unless maybe you're a motorcycling legend. My best at Manners was a low 20; even Scracha is doing 18's on his Frankencane 600.

I chose to sell the 400 and get an SV (if you can't beat em, join em) - I'm only racing in one class now (2 on track) but running at the pointy end of Pro Twins and F3. Much more fun !!

Kissy did ok at Wangas on a VFR400 (6th), and a guy did well at Paeroa in 2009 (3rd) but I very much doubt they are stock.

We have a lot of empirical background experience with this model and basically we would get the spring rates 95% correct straight off, without any need to see the bike. We have in fact built about 15 or so Ohlins shocks for that model, they are long since out of production ex Ohlins. Experience with those gives us a solid baseline of setting that we apply to the stock shock and the forks are a no brainer. One of our further strengths is that if the spring rates turn out to be not quite correct we exchange at no further cost excepting courier recovery fees. We also provide easy to follow and concise setup info and are always available to answer questions by phone or e-mail.

We are no the cheapest as we dont cut corners and are always available to help.

My best on a stock 89 CBR400RR was a low 1.20. Jarrod Wintle did a 1.19 which might have been the record for a 400, not sure. These are winter series times.

If its any help, I still think I am a 'good' rider.

Much quicker on an SV

Yeah 18's at manfield is more than possible. Jason Hulme on a fairly stock 30 beat Ernie at HD during the tri series. An Ernies is aloooot quicker than scracha

So just give it a go as standard and see if the racing lark is really what you want to carry on with , (maybe on a diff bike)

...just do it son...when you ride faster than the NC30 can go as it is , you will have answered your own question and you'll know what the next step is...trying to catch up is what the game is for most of us...

the lap record for a 400 is 1.13.8 done over 10 years ago.

Originally Posted by blackdog

I'm prepared for you all to flame away.

The OP (is it racefactory or ttmadness?) is probably not a bad rider, my belief however is the poor bastard is probably lacking in the ol' IQ stakes.

Why ask questions here when you could pop into the local kindergarten and get an accurate answer.

Let me guess. You wandered into the last few posts of this thread and missed all the posts above, plus more but I got bored of it all.

**blackdog** · 5th March 2011, 18:32

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Let me guess. You wandered into the last few posts of this thread and missed all the posts above, plus more but I got bored of it all.

i'm lmfao, i have read the thread from the start but you have wrapped it all up nicely. might be time to consign that dirty ol' 400 to the landfill methinks.

**White trash** · 5th March 2011, 18:32

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Let me guess. You wandered into the last few posts of this thread and missed all the posts above, plus more but I got bored of it all.

What is the limit for a multiquote I wonder?

**onearmedbandit** · 5th March 2011, 18:35

Originally Posted by blackdog

i'm lmfao, i have read the thread from the start but you have wrapped it all up nicely.

Must be a pretty impressive kindergarten if Robert Taylor is there giving out advice for free.

Originally Posted by White trash

What is the limit for a multiquote I wonder?

Not sure, I didn't hit it.

**Mental Trousers** · 5th March 2011, 19:01

Originally Posted by Drew

Noted, I'm not quite so full of myself as to think I'm the one who makes human evolution a possibility.

You could rightly lay claim to being one of those who makes human devolution possible though.

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

Must be a pretty impressive kindergarten if Robert Taylor is there giving out advice for free.

Robert is happy to educate anyone and everyone about the advantages of quality suspension and knowledgeable people. I guess he's getting them early, showing them why the suspension (or lack of) on their trikes means they're likely to topple over and skin their knees.