Synthetic fortified oil and older machines

[MSTRS:Me]

Why would you, if you'd been assured that oil change intervals could be massively extended just by fitting a particular type of filter...

[bogan]

Interesting stuff. A few questions, if you run top notch oil in an old engine for 15,000km, as opposed to medium quality stuff for 5000km, is there more danger of particulate (I dunno the proper term, tiny bits of cylinder wear etc) buildup in the oil which doesn't get contained by the filter going round and doing some damage?

And a mostly unrelated question, overly rich tuned engines get fuel in the oil, (which degrades it I heard) as I'm barely started the current lot of oil, and mid-tuning my bike, it has been running a bit rich i think, do I have to change out the oil? Was rich enough to make it misfire a bit for around 15min, and probably an hours riding fine but possibly a little rich.

[Paul in NZ]

I dont care what oil anyone runs really, it matters more that its changed regularly ....

Most folks on KB could run synth easily but some of us run really old machines without oil filters and some are even older. The triumph originally had only a sludge trap which is a centrifugal trap in the crank designed to catch bits and let em sit there until you next have the crank out. If you run high detergent oils in these old cranks they can loosen up the sediments and bad things happen plus thy tend to hold the crud in suspension and it doesnt settle like it should. hence, I've installed a full flow filter in the return line. I run a penrite gas or diesel oil.

Old roller cranks can skid on synth oils (its too slippery) but these are bikes waaaay older than anyone here cares about.

No matter WHAT the maker says - IMHO, if you want the vehicle to last outside the warrenty, 15,000km is too long between changes. I've seen 2 modern cars destroy big ends this month because the owner assumed sythetic oil lasts forever... (dumbarse)

[Flip]

I personally hate it when oil manufacturers say you can extend the oil service life by using x brand. It cost Mobil heaps when they made these claims of Mobil1 20+ years ago.

In a perfect world a oil filter takes out the big bits and the small bits that are left over are so small they can do no damage, however oil filters are not perfect, especially the low quality ones, they filter most of the large particles out and block up doing so until the internal bypass begins to open then do nothing. When does this happen? I don't know, it would depend on a great many factors. But if I was a reputable motor maker and I had little control over what oil and what after market oil filter was going to be used I would want my filters changed when they were at about 50% of the max contamination load. Just at the point the particles were beginning to slow down the oil flow. If I was a reputable motor maker that is.

Fuel dilution of lube oil is a problem, happens in old motors, motors that are used for start stop work and out of tune motors. Basically the fuel washes the oil off the bores and reduces the oils viscosity in the crank case in both cases increasing the wear in the motor. It is possible to vaporise the fuel that is dissolved in the oil by doing the occasional good long run.

[Quasievil]

No matter WHAT the maker says - IMHO, if you want the vehicle to last outside the warrenty, 15,000km is too long between changes. I've seen 2 modern cars destroy big ends this month because the owner assumed sythetic oil lasts forever... (dumbarse)

two things
1/ thats on the assumption that they actually have a synthetic oil (not a group III marketed as a synthetic)
2/ 15000kms is nothing, I change my Car 15000kms everytime on Mobil 1 5W-30

guess what, the engine is mint.

[Flip]

Old roller cranks can skid on synth oils (its too slippery) but these are bikes waaaay older than anyone here cares about.

I have had personal experience of this myself, but I can't positively say it was the oil, however the oil maker did pay for most of the repairs.

Also don't run synthetics in very old bikes, they are not compatible with the old natural rubber and felt seal materials.

I change the Mobil 1 oil in one of my cars at 15,000, only because it is the service interval. The bloody thing takes almost 6 liters. I don't think I would do that milage in a bike, the gear boxes are very good at chopping up the VI (viscosity index) additive and I always worry about the way bike oil thins with use. The VI is the stuff that makes a std 20 weight oil a 20W40, it looks like gorilla snot, it is not very shear stable.

[jonbuoy]

You can listen to the engine builders, tuners and peformance part manufacturers regarding break in oils and, ZDDP levels, flat tappet engines, ring seating etc... or you can listen to the oil manufacturers and sales reps. I listen to the engine builders and tuners.

[Quasievil]

I listen to the engine builders and tuners.

So do the oil companies otherwise you wouldn't have any oil of a modern standard.

[roadracingoldfart]

Bollocks me mateys, a fully synthetic only offers advantages, there are no disadvantages at all in running a synthetic in a engine of any age.
thats a fact.

Bollocks back at ya Quasi.

[Quasievil]

Bollocks back at ya Quasi.

YAAAAY KB Bollocks all round bro

im right tho

[scumdog]

In a perfect world a oil filter takes out the big bits and the small bits that are left over are so small they can do no damage, however oil filters are not perfect, especially the low quality ones, they filter most of the large particles out and block up doing so until the internal bypass begins to open then do nothing. When does this happen? I don't know, it would depend on a great many factors.
.

Hence why when I dump my oil - I also dump the oil filter.

[Flip]

Hence why when I dump my oil - I also dump the oil filter.

Exactly what i do as well.

[AllanB]

Hence why when I dump my oil - I also dump the oil filter.

Ditto. Cheap insurance.

BUT - there is a pile of posts on the webby wanking on about oil filters working better after X amount of time and you should change the filter every second oil change.

Actually Quasi you should find the fact sheet about synthetics and post it - to do with the base grade or something I recall. They are a bit like poos - all poos stink but there are different things in them that make them stink so if you want a really stinky poo you need to start with the high quality base product.

[Owl]

The VI is the stuff that makes a std 20 weight oil a 20W40, it looks like gorilla snot, it is not very shear stable.

Isn't that related to mineral only? Doesn't synthetic work backward, starting with (in this case) a 40 weight and naturally flowing lower without additives?

[ellipsis]

...'right then...think I get the gist..all the "good oil", to coin phrase...confused..Nah, not at all...yeah, I got the first heat cycle out of the way up Okuti Valley , Grumph, and then a couple down at Baileys Road, Birdlings Flat way...box full of good ole mineral oil...I got it all seated well enough...my question on the Elf oil is more to do with me not having my glasses with me when a trusted mate in these things put the shit in my hand and said, "thats the shit you want"...I get home and the only words on the bottle that aren't..parlez vous francaise, are "Synthetic Fortified Oil"...is this shit a synthetic oil or a mineral based oil with high tech banana skins in it...should have been the question...really...on consideration...