MNZ board nominations

[Wingnut]

Why is so much of this discussion based on side cars and the Nationals?

Many MNZ members join the sport purely out of enjoyment and to "participate" at club levels be it for whatever reason, financial, motivational or just an extreme lack of talent (yours truly included).

Anyway I would be interested to know if any of the two candidates have any thoughts on what the average joe club racer could expect to see change? Specifically in the area of fostering new young talented kids to achieve their potential?

Can MNZ members at the club levels expect to see any change in the future?

Also, if MNZ has made a profit of $200k - Is an increase in the annual fees justified?

Not stirring - just curious?

[scott411]

This attitude of 'we are volunteers we can do whatever the fuck we want' is bullshit. I can understand the riders frustration at HDs, how come officials just make up rules? We tried to ask flag mashalls to look at the track at Invercargill and apparently they dont have to cause they are volunteers says the steward.

there is a difference between talking or complaining to a steward/flag marshall and abusing them, the code of conduct works both ways, (or at least it should)

[The Chow]

This attitude of 'we are volunteers we can do whatever the fuck we want' is bullshit. I can understand the riders frustration at HDs, how come officials just make up rules? We tried to ask flag mashalls to look at the track at Invercargill and apparently they dont have to cause they are volunteers says the steward.

Choppa mate , of course there has to be rules , and yes that was a muck up at Hampton Downs riders who didn't want to race should have left the grid and let others who wanted to race, just get over it mate it happens. Teretonga I went to the Steward and was pretty pissed , about going all the down there for that sorry situation. It makes me laugh , riders don't want to race and yet they have full wets , traction control , better brakes among other things and oh fuck we cant race aqua planning is not new , the throttle works both ways. Give me a break , do you think days gone by Holden , Hiscock etc would wimped out , not on your life. And on 130/80-18 rear tyres and 19" fronts and yes they were still did fast speeds on old piles of shit. Imagine what it was like out there for a flaggy , you know the guys who are volunteers!!!

Like it or not Chop the volunteers and part timers are what run the sport for you to have a lot of fun, :-) cheers

[CHOPPA]

there is a difference between talking or complaining to a steward/flag marshall and abusing them, the code of conduct works both ways, (or at least it should)

What good is complaining or talking? As I asked in my Thread after R1, Do officials have to go by the rules? Apparently not as demonstrated again and again throughout the nationals.

Oh except from the final round!

At the riders briefing was the first round where there wasnt an argument. The difference was the attitude of the official. He was asked a question and he replied calmly thought about it. Asked the rider what they would like, asked if anyone disagreed then made his decision.

Anywhere else a rider asked a question they were promptly abused and made a fool of by the officials.

I dont care if there volunteers, if they have attitudes like that dont come. If we cant race cause we dont have any officials then we cant race. Then maybe a professionally run series might get the national titles like the tri series

[The Chow]

What good is complaining or talking? As I asked in my Thread after R1, Do officials have to go by the rules? Apparently not as demonstrated again and again throughout the nationals.

Oh except from the final round!

At the riders briefing was the first round where there wasnt an argument. The difference was the attitude of the official. He was asked a question and he replied calmly thought about it. Asked the rider what they would like, asked if anyone disagreed then made his decision.

Anywhere else a rider asked a question they were promptly abused and made a fool of by the officials.

I dont care if there volunteers, if they have attitudes like that dont come. If we cant race cause we dont have any officials then we cant race. Then maybe a professionally run series might get the national titles like the tri series

Come on, professional series in your dreams , yes some officials are prats , their is no doubt. But mate take a look at your professional series Leighton and Perry don't do it for the money , they do it because like me we love the sport first. We have seen it all before mate. They are even thinking at joining the series at some stage. Please don't compare the two series because both series have a very strong friendship.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pete I can just see Gary and Steve calling you a c**T (Not) and remember it's your job , not an unpaid position. On the other hand I could see Barry doing it or John and Mark in the old days LOL

Hate to tell you this...but they'd both happily call me that if they felt the need. But I was referring to customers...and really only joking anyway. I get on with most people, and enjoy what I do. I've been there for nearly 18 years after all...and I do have their full permission to tell someone to fuck off if they're being way over the top rude too, as some people can get.

Which brings me to the bit about an MNZ Steward being told the same. I fully know how much time and effort they put into shit. It's an awesome thing they do. But when certain MNZ 'Officials' talk to paying MNZ members like something stuck to the bottom of their shoe...they (like me at work etc) should fully expect to be told to go fuck themselves.

No one makes them do it. If doing it makes them bitter and twisted...they need to stop doing it for everyones sake. Dealing with nasty bully boy MNZ stewards really takes the gloss of being involved in the sport. Sure gave me a sour taste of road racing when I first fronted up after years of having fun racing in the dirt.

[CHOPPA]

Choppa mate , of course there has to be rules , and yes that was a muck up at Hampton Downs riders who didn't want to race should have left the grid and let others who wanted to race, just get over it mate it happens. Teretonga I went to the Steward and was pretty pissed , about going all the down there for that sorry situation. It makes me laugh , riders don't want to race and yet they have full wets , traction control , better brakes among other things and oh fuck we cant race aqua planning is not new , the throttle works both ways. Give me a break , do you think days gone by Holden , Hiscock etc would wimped out , not on your life. And on 130/80-18 rear tyres and 19" fronts and yes they were still did fast speeds on old piles of shit. Imagine what it was like out there for a flaggy , you know the guys who are volunteers!!!

Like it or not Chop the volunteers and part timers are what run the sport for you to have a lot of fun, :-) cheers

I would have ridden.

I do appreciate the effort of volunteers, people like yourself who have a positive attitude are great and single handedly you do prob more to make the nats professional then anyone else but surely even yourself you must get pissed off at this im a volunteer i can do what i like attitude. Your a volunteer but you do a professional job.

If they have a bad attitude or no people skills put them on a flag instead of letting them deal with the riders. Its frustrating!

Its such a shambles, Dan Stauffer thought it was a joke and thats what all the ozzy riders will hear.

I have been to ozzy to race and seen how they do things, I have offered suggestions and they fall on deaf ears. Go to ozzy and watch how they run a meeting! It doesnt take money it just takes organisation. No rider would dare abuse an official and an official wouldnt make up rules.

When im done racing I will be the first to offer my services as a volunteer and official

[The Chow]

Hate to tell you this...but they'd both happily call me that if they felt the need. But I was referring to customers...and really only joking anyway. I get on with most people, and enjoy what I do. I've been there for nearly 18 years after all...and I do have their full permission to tell someone to fuck off if they're being way over the top rude too, as some people can get.

Which brings me to the bit about an MNZ Steward being told the same. I fully know how much time and effort they put into shit. It's an awesome thing they do. But when certain MNZ 'Officials' talk to paying MNZ members like something stuck to the bottom of their shoe...they (like me at work etc) should fully expect to be told to go fuck themselves.

No one makes them do it. If doing it makes them bitter and twisted...they need to stop doing it for everyones sake. Dealing with nasty bully boy MNZ stewards really takes the gloss of being involved in the sport. Sure gave me a sour taste of road racing when I first fronted up after years of having fun racing in the dirt.

Hey Pete , riders don't like officials and never have. Nothing new there. But they are unfortunately necessary , just ask a coroner or cops after a death or something like happened at Pukekohe several years ago. Mate you think MNZ officials are heavy try telling a cop you don't have all the paper work in order , mate you are in the gun if you don't. Anyway everyone is allowed a point of view , glad to hear you are enjoying the VMX , actually whens the next meeting?

[CHOPPA]

Come on, professional series in your dreams , yes some officials are prats , their is no doubt. But mate take a look at your professional series Leighton and Perry don't do it for the money , they do it because like me we love the sport first. We have seen it all before mate. They are even thinking at joining the series at some stage. Please don't compare the two series because both series have a very strong friendship.

Why did the tri series run like clockwork with no arguments and the nats were a shambles?

I asked L8 what his job was and he said the tri series. That makes him a professional

[The Chow]

I would have ridden.

I do appreciate the effort of volunteers, people like yourself who have a positive attitude are great and single handedly you do prob more to make the nats professional then anyone else but surely even yourself you must get pissed off at this im a volunteer i can do what i like attitude. Your a volunteer but you do a professional job.

If they have a bad attitude or no people skills put them on a flag instead of letting them deal with the riders. Its frustrating!

Its such a shambles, Dan Stauffer thought it was a joke and thats what all the ozzy riders will hear.

I have been to ozzy to race and seen how they do things, I have offered suggestions and they fall on deaf ears. Go to ozzy and watch how they run a meeting! It doesnt take money it just takes organisation. No rider would dare abuse an official and an official wouldnt make up rules.

When im done racing I will be the first to offer my services as a volunteer and official

Mate I understand completely where you are coming from , I had my fair share of run ins with Stewards over the years , I remember Ray Sherman fining me for swearing at another rider and Uncle Errol having a go at me at Manfeild over something.The problem I have is I see it from the Racer and Organiser side of thinks but there has been one thing I never aspired to and that was an MNZ stewart no not me mate.

I was pretty sure you would have ridden at Teretonga and Hampton mate if allowed.

[The Chow]

Why did the tri series run like clockwork with no arguments and the nats were a shambles?

I asked L8 what his job was and he said the tri series. That makes him a professional

No mate just bought a new business this week I think , watch out for the Interview I did with him. Leighton and Perry are great guys to work with , we are very similar in the way we see things.

[The Chow]

No mate just bought a new business this week I think , watch out for the Interview I did with him. Leighton and Perry are great guys to work with , we are very similar in the way we see things.

There were five different clubs running five different rounds , Leighton was the only one running the tri series. Mate it is bloody hard getting all clubs on the same page at the same time.

[scrivy]

The tale of New Zealand Sidecar Racing
OMG!! You are so mis-informed that it is scary to think that you are the head of our sport! Thats' what comes about by listening to only 1 person over many.

In 2009 and for several years preceding that the New Zealand Sidecar Championship ran at only four rounds of the NZ Road Race Championships. They missed the Invercargill round and began at Timaru. This came about after Chris Lawrance (The then President of the NZSRA) lobbied the then Road Race Commissioner, on the basis it was too expensive for sidecar teams to travel to Invercargill.
Also, on the basis that it is better to have more chairs on the grid at fewer meetings than a handful at more events. The commissioner also agreed. It is also difficult to get time off work for both riders and passengers at that time of year.

At the same time the NZSRA were approaching the organisers of the Invercargill round (The Southland Motorcycle Club) seeking funding for accommodation to include a bar tab.
WTF?? Jim, years ago the club had a culture of drinking, but not now. There are only about 2 members that drink nearly as much as you do! Both the president and vice-president don't drink at all!!
So name who it was please, otherwise you're talking rubbish. It certainly wasn't a NZSRA exec member!!


Shortly after the conclusion of the 2009 Nationals, several prominent sidecar teams returned to Timaru to compete in a combined car/bike event.
This destroyed any argument that could be put forward regarding travel being too expensive.
As mentioned previously, most of the teams that fronted were funded by other members. There were only a couple of teams that did the Nats that were there (and had done the Nats - and had the money to go back again), and some teams that don't do the Nats! Steve Bron was also going to be there, but a bike accident days earlier put paid to that. He was also going to bring down another bike too. This invitational event was in front of 10,000 spectators, and a new audience for us.

Then, in the run up to the 2010 New Zealand Road Race Championships it was decided that sidecars would be treated the same as every other Road Racing Class and their Championship would run over all five rounds.
Who decide that Jim? Is it minuted?
You stated (I have the written proof) that if you do not compete in all 5 rounds, you will not have a championship. Yet Mr Bron only did 4 rounds, but was still awarded a championship! Go figure.

Yes, the NZSRA did vote to do only four rounds, unfortunately they did not and still don’t represent all sidecar racers in New Zealand.
True.

During the 2009 Championship there were up to 13 outfits and at least 6 outfits (46%) indicated they wished to compete at all five rounds.
There were also lengthy discussions held with the new President of the NZSRA (Burt Wolland) based around the possibility of running different levels of competition, to encourage participation.
It became very obvious that a “Have” and “Have Not” division was occurring. Those with funding to compete in the Championship and those without.

As the argument regarding costs had been waived by the sidecar competitors, when they returned to the South Is for the car meeting, the 2010 Championship proceeded
The organising Clubs included Sidecars on their entry forms; unfortunately insufficient outfits entered the second round in Invercargill. So the Club dropped the class.
Simple Fact: MNZ/Clubs put on the events and only a few came to race.
Please don't blame the NZSRA for that Jim. We never commited to the Nats. You were wrongly told that you would have enough to make a grid. You chose to believe an individual over an association. You were told that we could have 15 plus at 2 rounds, but you told us 5 rounds or no champs.

Also, it is MNZ’s understanding that several prominent members of the NZSRA campaigned to scuttle the 2010 Nationals. This was relayed to us by several sidecar competitors and we have no reason to disbelieve them.
Of course you have no reason to disbelieve him - the guy nominated you as president 2 years ago! You chose to listen to a person with his own agenda, over many other MNZ members. Unfortunately he has deceived many a person in our sport. The latest is Leanne.

One question we would ask is “was there any relevance to the fact that Mr Lawrance’s wedding was held on the same weekend as the Manfeild round of the Nationals.”
Most weddings in NZ are in February. Chris's was no exception. He was having an operation early in March, so had to get married beforehand. No one present at the wedding was doing the Nats, so he didn't take anyone away from Manfeild. You can try hard to think he did, but your 'credible informer' has just spun you a load of shit! You fell for it hook, line and sinker! Chris had the date booked way before the dates for the Nats, as they were so late in coming out.

We then began the planning of the 2011 Castrol Power 1 New Zealand Road Race Championships.
But while attending the Hampton Downs round of the Suzuki Tri Series, we were advised that Mr Lawrance and Mr Scrivener were organising a trip to Australia for sidecars to compete at the “Barry Sheene Memorial” which just happened to clash with the last two rounds of the Nationals, if you include freight time/ travel.
As I've stated before Jim, I had nothing to do with the organisation of it! Your 'credible advisors' should have told you the truth. That 'NO NATS RIDERS WERE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO GO'!! Chris was adamant on that issue.

During this same period, members of the NZSRA apparently voted to pull out of MNZ.
Actually, it was immediately after the AGM. Not in December.

However several members of the Association question the validity of that ‘Vote’, apparently approximately 15% of the membership was not consulted.
Really? What number weren't consulted, and how many of us were in the association at the time? Sounds like a pie in the sky guess to me.
As we understand it, this was driven by Mr Scrivener and Mr Lawrance.
Apparently you are wrong yet again! I am not an exec member, so I have no sway in the NZSRA. Actually, an 8 way phone conversation with the exec was undertaken by Tania Waitokia (you know, the lady you assaulted at Hampton Downs - and were then investigated by the police), and then follow up calls were made to damn near most members, and we had a 91% acceptance of the decission. So you're mis-informed understanding is wrong again.


The 2011 Championship kicked off in Timaru and those who came to race should be congratulated,
Those that went to race were paid to race so a member could win another title.
however the momentum didn’t continue with the class being dropped from the Teretonga, Hampton Downs and Manfield rounds.

The Simple Fact is Unchanged: MNZ/Clubs put on the events and only a few came to race.
You were feed a load of crap Jim. You were told (and you accepted) that they would have enough numbers to make a class. Actually, they didn't even have enough at closing date for H.Downs either. You chose the lies over the fact.

This has now brought about a very difficult situation.
The Clubs offered to run Sidecars as part of the programmes and nobody came.
Why would they consider including Sidecars in the future.
I guess its the commissioners call then.


MNZ fought hard to keep the Sidecar Championship alive.
No, you fought the NZSRA all the way, as your dislike for myself and Chris was obvious from 3 or more years ago. You tried in vain to stop Chris racing at Paeroa, and tried in vain to stop the TRRS. You made your bed with one side of the 'Haves' as you put them, and had a total disregard for the 'Have-nots'. You even went a step further by denying the NZSRA and Classic and Post classic clubs a carnet bond for the Aussie trip. But we got around that setback, by paying for it ourselves.

Only a few came so, why continue it.
I am at a loss as to why this is my fault.
You have insinuated, accused, harrassed, assaulted and chosen sides all along Jim. Not once have you bothered to talk to either Chris or myself to get actual fact. I will give you facts all the time, if you'd bothered to call. You know the effects of your actions, but you did nothing to remedy it.
Why should sidecars be treated any differently to other New Zealand Road Race Championship classes.


For the record, I was involved when the NZSRA was formed and have been a card carrying member. I understand they are still using the little purple folded membership cards.


Regards

BJT666 - Jim Tuckerman

Wrong again. We haven't used that card for several years now.

Scrivy

[CHOPPA]

No mate just bought a new business this week I think , watch out for the Interview I did with him. Leighton and Perry are great guys to work with , we are very similar in the way we see things.

Im subscribed!

BTW if there is a board or a meeting for next years nats let me know because I have some constructive suggestions and I think having a riders input will be valuable. Im in wellington too!

[The Chow]

Im subscribed!

BTW if there is a board or a meeting for next years nats let me know because I have some constructive suggestions and I think having a riders input will be valuable. Im in wellington too!

Where do you live? I'm in Tawa PM with your details . No the board meeting was last week.