MNZ board nominations

[old rig]

Good of you to answer Morris's questions Scrivy!

Dont see anywhere in the manual where it states you MUST belong too the NZSRA too compete in a sidecar race in NZ,

As I understand it the now disassociated NZSRA was only an affiliated club like say for arguments sake,The Vic club??So does that mean that only Vic club members can do the Actrix series??Jeez Scrivy,I hope not cause otherwise we're gonna have to join a lot of clubs to do the Nationals,AYE!!!

Soooo,I guess assuming you don't need to belong to the NZSRA to race a sidecar in NZ and Steve Bron turned up to do the Nationals and you guys didnt,Then that must mean it was you guys that dragged sidecar racing into the doldrums ????

"You guys" Andrew Scrivener/Steve Bryan,Chris and Richie Lawrance and the rest of the NZSRA members that refused to compete with Steve Bron

also you tell me who said that members refused to compete with steve bron

[Billy]

As some of you will know - I've sat in both sides of the sidecar argument. I've had abuse flung at me by NZSRA members and I've had abuse flung at me by non NZSRA members, but through all the garbage that was going on (which to be perfectly honest I know nothing about), Chris Lawrance always made a point of coming and saying hello and asking me how me and my rig were doing. I can honestly say that from what I've experienced first hand I've never been given the impression that Chris was ever involved with what has happened, far less instigated any of it.

As per most of the posts on here - this has just been my experience.

Really Leanne,

You were abused by members of the NZSRA,Why?I thought all you were doing was trying to participate in a class,I understand the disagreement you had with Steve Bron too a point,But really being abused by the body thats supposed too be fostering the sport smacks of the allegations made against Jim Tuckerman and the board at MNZ.

Fully agree with you re Chris,He is a nice guy and Im sure he has the best interests of the sport at heart,BUT look back through this thread and unfortunately you will see the baggage that comes with him,Mr Scrivener has stated in 1 post how he will have NO input too MNZ then in another states if Hes caught lying(Which Hes done plenty of in this thread,He just chooses not to answer the questions that will expose him)He will fall on his sword.If hes not having any part,Then he doesnt have a sword too fall on,Does he??

[Billy]

also you tell me who said that members refused to compete with steve bron

Well my old china,

Quite apart from the fact its common knowledge,Anybody else remember Sidecar Bobs post in another thread regarding the sandpit experience,When another kid that nodoby likes comes into the sandpit,All the others leave until he goes?Was that not directed at Steve Bron???

[Billy]

the last line of your post is so so wrong i think you havn't any idea what your talking about

Is it?

Have another read,But I'll say it another way so you understand,We'll go back too the sandpit experience mentioned above shall we,Its not he new" kid" that leaves the sandpit and ruins the playground,Its the dummyspitters that run away and hope He'll get sick of playing and go home.

Now,Who left the sandpit,Yes your right,It was those I mentioned in the post you quoted.

GOT IT NOW ????

[Billy]

'viewer friendly' .

Hmmmmm,Thats an interesting quote youve made there Morris,"viewer" Why does that raise alarm bells for me???OH thats right,Now I remember,BUT its a secret isnt it Scrivy and Bob????

Sorry I didnt reply too your post earlier Morris,Maurice,Marcus,But Im sure you would have seen my explanation too your freind Mr Scrivener,That should clear it up for you and "YES" I am campaigning for Jim Tuckerman and the reason is,No matter whether you like him or not,After devoting well over 30 years of his life motorcycling in NZ for little if any gain,He has proved in the last 2 years he has what and who it takes too move the sport forward,While Im sure Chris does also,He has also proven he can take it backwards as well!!!

Sorry Chris if youve had too read any of this,But its fact NOT personal

[prettybillie]

You were abused by members of the NZSRA,Why?I thought all you were doing was trying to participate in a class,I understand the disagreement you had with Steve Bron too a point,But really being abused by the body thats supposed too be fostering the sport smacks of the allegations made against Jim Tuckerman and the board at MNZ.

Sorry, I should have been more clear in my post.....As I said, I've been on both sides of the fence and I agree the NZSRA have some issues they need to deal with, but the other parties in this battle have a lot to answer for as well. Abuse was also slung from the non-NZSRA camp over nothing other than me wanting to ride and not giving a toss who I ride with.

As for people not wanting to play in the sandpit with Bron, I can honestly say that is not 100% true. The fault with all the drama doesn't lay with just the NZSRA or just Bron - there have been a lot of shitty things said and done from both camps, but the point to my post was to say that I've never seen or got the impression that Chris has ever been involved in the shit slinging.

As I said in my last post - this is my personal view / experience / feelings. Others may see things differently to me, but this is what I see.

[Billy]

Sorry, I should have been more clear in my post.....As I said, I've been on both sides of the fence and I agree the NZSRA have some issues they need to deal with, but the other parties in this battle have a lot to answer for as well. Abuse was also slung from the non-NZSRA camp over nothing other than me wanting to ride and not giving a toss who I ride with.

As for people not wanting to play in the sandpit with Bron, I can honestly say that is not 100% true. The fault with all the drama doesn't lay with just the NZSRA or just Bron - there have been a lot of shitty things said and done from both camps, but the point to my post was to say that I've never seen or got the impression that Chris has ever been involved in the shit slinging.

As I said in me last post - this is my personal view / experience / feelings. Others may see things differently to me, but this is what I see.

Thanks for the clarification Leanne,

Like you I also did not say Chris had been involved in any shit slinging,What I have implied is that by not participating at National level himself he has added too the demise of this facet of the sport.

As for the sandpit experience,Well that statement was made by an NZSRA member on this site,NOT ME!!Dont be surprised if that post suddenly disappears if not already,I wouldnt want too upset you mate,But I find it a little hard to believe that you didnt know certain members wer displeased with Steve Brons attendance,You were at Timaru earlier this year and you know who was there supporting the class and who wasn't.

I had an interesting conversation with Adam Unsworth,Stu Dawes and Vince Steur on the ferry heading too round 1 and its interesting too compare stories.

[prettybillie]

Thanks for the clarification Leanne,

Like you I also did not say Chris had been involved in any shit slinging,What I have implied is that by not participating at National level himself he has added too the demise of this facet of the sport.

As for the sandpit experience,Well that statement was made by an NZSRA member on this site,NOT ME!!Dont be surprised if that post suddenly disappears if not already,I wouldnt want too upset you mate,But I find it a little hard to believe that you didnt know certain members wer displeased with Steve Brons attendance,You were at Timaru earlier this year and you know who was there supporting the class and who wasn't.

I had an interesting conversation with Adam Unsworth,Stu Dawes and Vince Steur on the ferry heading too round 1 and its interesting too compare stories.

You wouldn't upset me buddy - this is a forum where everyone is allowed their own opinions and thoughts.

I do know that people were not happy with Bron, but I also know first hand some of the things he has done to upset everyone. There are two sides to every story and the truth usually lays somewhere in the middle.

On this though - there has been a lot of discussion about Nationals on this thread, I am really keen to know what the plans are to support those (large number of people) who are happy to participate at a club level only. MNZ are not just about Nationals (and thankfully not just about sidecars), so what are the plans to support clubs which are the ones that feed into the sport?

[Biggles08]

Really Leanne,
BUT look back through this thread and unfortunately you will see the baggage that comes with him,

Everyone has baggage Billy...even your candidate does as can be seen in this thread also.

I don't think 'having baggage' is really the main issue, its what you do with this baggage that makes or breaks the man. Personally, due ONLY to the experiences I have had with Chris, I have absolutely nothing but respect for Chris Lawrance and the way he has handled 'HIMSELF' over this whole sidecar issue. I can see he is a big enough man to put any 'sour grapes' behind him and as he has said, there are all the classes to consider not just sidecars or road racing.

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree that Jim Tuckerman has done good for MNZ over the last 2 years (some may argue he possibly could have done things better), my only concern going forward is his ability to work as part of 'a team' and this means working through disagreements and sticking to the rules as laid out by MNZ themselves. This is not a shit slinging remark either by the way, this is only my concerns based mainly on the way the whole 'Bryce Meads' episode was handled. Like Bryce or not, he never had a chance of defending himself and personally I find this disturbing in a supposedly democratic system. I will say, I have only heard one side of the story however but I was there at the incident and I know the facts surrounding it. I know Bryce never had a chance to answer any questions regardless of whether MNZ had jurisdiction or not...if they did, he still never had any process followed where he could have had the opportunity to explain his side of the story. Thats not right.

[sidecar bob]

I dont even know what this "sidecar argument" is anymore.
Two years ago we geard ourselves up for two rounds down south, then it was changed to three & because of business & work commitments Andys team & Traceys team pulled out (those are the two that concern me) & couldnt go.
Call it boycotting it if that floats ya boat, i couldnt care less.
We couldnt & didnt go & have had no intention of doing the south since.
Whatever reason some other plonkers give & however they want to sell it to paint us in a bad light, frankly I dont give a shit & im fucked if I know how that makes me look like a spoilt child.
End of story.

[Billy]

Everyone has baggage Billy...even your candidate does as can be seen in this thread also.

I don't think 'having baggage' is really the main issue, its what you do with this baggage that makes or breaks the man. Personally, due ONLY to the experiences I have had with Chris, I have absolutely nothing but respect for Chris Lawrance and the way he has handled 'HIMSELF' over this whole sidecar issue. I can see he is a big enough man to put any 'sour grapes' behind him and as he has said, there are all the classes to consider not just sidecars or road racing.

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree that Jim Tuckerman has done good for MNZ over the last 2 years (some may argue he possibly could have done things better), my only concern going forward is his ability to work as part of 'a team' and this means working through disagreements and sticking to the rules as laid out by MNZ themselves. This is not a shit slinging remark either by the way, this is only my concerns based mainly on the way the whole 'Bryce Meads' episode was handled. Like Bryce or not, he never had a chance of defending himself and personally I find this disturbing in a supposedly democratic system. I will say, I have only heard one side of the story however but I was there at the incident and I know the facts surrounding it. I know Bryce never had a chance to answer any questions regardless of whether MNZ had jurisdiction or not...if they did, he still never had any process followed where he could have had the opportunity to explain his side of the story. Thats not right.

Hey!!You got your old name back lol,

I fully agree with you re the baggage issue and in fact you may have misinterpreted my comment,I wasnt implying Chris himself was carrying any,Rather its the people around him and while Im aware Chris is his "own man" and is his own personality,Im not convinced he will be able to withstand some of the outside influences around him and I think his failure to appear at the Nationals for the last couple of years validates this and atleast try and keep their side of the series running,I may be wrong,Its happened before and Im man enough too admit it.

Yes your right that Jim is a bit of a rough diamond,But you cant say he doesnt let you what hes thinking or if youve annoyed him,Obviuosly not one of his strong points when he deals with MNZ members and I and many others have told him this in the past,However he does have a good team around him and they are moving forward,Some would argue they are not the best people for their respective jobs,But they are the best that have put their hands up and taken the job on with gusto,Food for thought!

Re the Bryce Meads affair,I dont think this was shown in its true light on this site as nobody that I am aware of had BOTH sides of the story at the time the thread was running on here,Bryce was on probation for earlier incidents he been involved in One was where he took Nick Odermatt out at the first round of the Tri series and Jim Tuckerman was present as Clerk of the Course,The second was the Sam Love incident on the long circuit at Manfeild and witnessed by BJ Cawthorn,Regretfully for Bryce this was only brought too MNZs attention by the stewards report after Sam Love stupidly took a physical approach to remedy the situation,The Hampton Downs incident for which Bryce was suspended came to MNZs attention following Craig Shirriffs and others comments on this site in the "Goat of Hampton Downs" thread and the rest is history,Whether Bryce was suspended under the code of conduct clause or the board actioned his probation charge,I dont know,Never asked.However most people would agree Bryce was having some issues with his riding and it was only a matter of time before he hurt or killed himself or someone else as was witnessed at Wanganui on the start/finish straight and it was clear he needed sometime out to think about how he could do things better.Few would disagree he has come back as a much better individual,Maybe not as fast but a better allround rider.I have the utmost respect for anybody running at National level in any class,But more so the 600/Superbike guys,I recognise the commitment,Physically/mentally and financially you guys put in and it would be frustrating if all that is ruined in an instant by somebody who was struggling and pushing beyond their means time and time again,By the same token it would be both negligible and irresponsible of MNZ too turn a blind eye and let it continue,In my opinion the right decision was made and the outcome has proven that.

Thank you for an informative and reasonable response to my post,Hopefully people can atleast make some sense of it and I await your reply Morris,Maurice,Marcus,Biggles.

[Quasievil]

54 pages of readin WTF, I see the discussion is already on its arse with personal agendas and alliances all over it.

My two cents, anyone involved in MNZ currently doesnt get my support, put the same shit in get the same shit out. get rid of the fossils and get in some marketing people, the sport will always be "wanting" until people start buying tickets to the events, and until people start buying tickets to the events no one will give a poo poo about the sport and there will never be any money in it.

Get the "SHOW" and watch it "GROW"

[prettybillie]

I dont even know what this "sidecar argument" is anymore.
.

I don't think anyone does hunny

[rastus]

...Re the Bryce Meads affair,I dont think this was shown in its true light on this site as nobody that I am aware of had BOTH sides of the story at the time the thread was running on here,Bryce was on probation for earlier incidents he been involved in One was where he took Nick Odermatt out at the first round of the Tri series and Jim Tuckerman was present as Clerk of the Course,The second was the Sam Love incident on the long circuit at Manfeild and witnessed by BJ Cawthorn,Regretfully for Bryce this was only brought too MNZs attention by the stewards report after Sam Love stupidly took a physical approach to remedy the situation,The Hampton Downs incident for which Bryce was suspended came to MNZs attention following Craig Shirriffs and others comments on this site in the "Goat of Hampton Downs" thread and the rest is history,Whether Bryce was suspended under the code of conduct clause or the board actioned his probation charge,I dont know,Never asked.However most people would agree Bryce was having some issues with his riding and it was only a matter of time before he hurt or killed himself or someone else as was witnessed at Wanganui on the start/finish straight and it was clear he needed sometime out to think about how he could do things better.
it would be frustrating if all that is ruined in an instant by somebody who was struggling and pushing beyond their means time and time again,By the same token it would be both negligible and irresponsible of MNZ too turn a blind eye and let it continue,In my opinion the right decision was made and the outcome has proven that...

Billy why then are MNZ being irresponsible and turning a blind eye to other incidents.
Look at how many people a red honda rider has taken out this season alone and how many times he has crashed.Wanganui - Hampton Downs and Paeroa all have been on t.v. showing this and we know it happened at other rounds so are MNZ going to stand him down so he can think about his riding also like they did to Byrce Meads

[scott411]

Re the Bryce Meads affair,I dont think this was shown in its true light on this site as nobody that I am aware of had BOTH sides of the story at the time the thread was running on here,Bryce was on probation for earlier incidents he been involved in One was where he took Nick Odermatt out at the first round of the Tri series and Jim Tuckerman was present as Clerk of the Course,The second was the Sam Love incident on the long circuit at Manfeild and witnessed by BJ Cawthorn,Regretfully for Bryce this was only brought too MNZs attention by the stewards report after Sam Love stupidly took a physical approach to remedy the situation,The Hampton Downs incident for which Bryce was suspended came to MNZs attention following Craig Shirriffs and others comments on this site in the "Goat of Hampton Downs" thread and the rest is history,Whether Bryce was suspended under the code of conduct clause or the board actioned his probation charge,I dont know,Never asked.However most people would agree Bryce was having some issues with his riding and it was only a matter of time before he hurt or killed himself or someone else as was witnessed at Wanganui on the start/finish straight and it was clear he needed sometime out to think about how he could do things better.Few would disagree he has come back as a much better individual,Maybe not as fast but a better allround rider.I have the utmost respect for anybody running at National level in any class,But more so the 600/Superbike guys,I recognise the commitment,Physically/mentally and financially you guys put in and it would be frustrating if all that is ruined in an instant by somebody who was struggling and pushing beyond their means time and time again,By the same token it would be both negligible and irresponsible of MNZ too turn a blind eye and let it continue,In my opinion the right decision was made and the outcome has proven that.

the fact that a post on kiwibiker was used in any part of a dicipline hearing or meeting is very disturbing, having been to a motor vehicle dispute with someone who tried to bring in posts of here, the adjudacator quickly dismissed the posts as Hearsey, and would not even read them,

the Fact that Bryce did not get a chance to defend the evidence agaisnt him is a shocking lack of natural justice, if as you say he was on probation (which does not seem to have a lot of back up in the rules or constitution to what it actaully means) he may have go the same suspention,

Yes your right that Jim is a bit of a rough diamond,But you cant say he doesnt let you what hes thinking or if youve annoyed him,Obviuosly not one of his strong points when he deals with MNZ members and I and many others have told him this in the past,However he does have a good team around him and they are moving forward,Some would argue they are not the best people for their respective jobs,But they are the best that have put their hands up and taken the job on with gusto,Food for thought!

this is quite an understatement, he does not "tell people what he is thinking" he has a long history of verbally abusing people or nutting off as you will, and some of the his supporters last time said this has been rectified and he was going to be kept on a short leash, but it seems to have still be too long.

Now i know Jim has done huge amounts for the sport over the years, but i do not think MNZ is as Rosie as you have put it, The Road Race champs may be getting better but their are a lot of other sides of the sport that are not happy with some of hte decisions that the board have made,

Jim may be further disadvantaged over the fact that he is the only one that has an election, where the commisioners are appointed, and the other two board members have been the only ones nominated, the protest vote has only one place to go