Rodney Hide resigns

[Spearfish]

Too many people like to sit back and blame someone else for their shit life.
Its like watching a fat person say i can't lose weight while sitting in front of the TV, eating a pack of chips.

Yeah you're right but that's a symptom, based on a genuine feeling of helplessness.
Its far reaching to not just in the so called struggling sector of NZ and has been a tool used by political parties, probably more one side than the other, to great success.
Dependancy reached an all time low or high when working for families was introduced basically the country was told- there, there here is the GOVT teet to suckle from and while they had us over their shoulder burping the dependant they whisper "dont vote for them they will take your only chance of security away"
I'm not sure if the problem is that politics like that WERE being used or that they CAN be used and work!!
It says a lot about how NZ's feel about themselves.

[Swoop]

and they went did real apprenticeships... not the govt subsidised ones (well not directly, not sure), but it was a career for them, their choice. Your options where outlined as, go to Uni, get a job or go on the dole... If you went on the dole, YTS was in your future like it or not,

My underdstanding, it was a work placement... It wasn't seen as an apprenticeship. Unless you'd class making coffee and sweeping the floors every day of the week for the rest of your natural life a career choice.

OK.

I think we need to establish a line which separates the two entities.

The YTS is a work placement programme which was devised by government to get people into work (normally on a very low wage).

The apprenticeship scheme is where a person (usually a school leaver, but not always that age) would enter into a legally binding contract with an employer who would agree to train the person up to the standard of a tradesman. Wages of the apprentice were always based on a percentage of the tradesman's wage and would take another "step up the wage ladder" every 6 months or 12 months until arriving on similar wages to the tradesman at the completion of the apprenticeship.
Concurrently, the apprentice would be learning and studying at polytechnic or via correspondence school and would sit the Trade Certificate examination (one or sometimes two, 3hr exam/s) to become fully qualified.

There is a vast difference between the two entities.

[mashman]

OK so where are we talking?
Guess it wasn't NZ then so you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to them in this country do you?

That's fair enough. It was the UK and I saw the other side of the coin, I decided that kids are kids and that Kiwi kids are different to kids in the UK by accent alone. My bad. I'll take your word that it's different over here.

There is a vast difference between the two entities.

Fair enough. But that's not how everyone saw it. Unfortunately same shit, different "employer". I understand the idea behind the apprenticeship and truly believe that it was hijacked (forcing people into jobs that didn't want to be there, were others who did could have had the place), and damaged, by the YTS. You can seperate the intentions of the schemes all you like, but it's the perception of the potential candidates that matters innit.

[BoristheBiter]

That's fair enough. It was the UK and I saw the other side of the coin, I decided that kids are kids and that Kiwi kids are different to kids in the UK by accent alone. My bad. I'll take your word that it's different over here.

.

No, I think you are right, kids are kids the world over. You have them that want to better themselves and those that don't, those that will do anything to get ahead and those that want someone else to do it for them and then there are those that just want to do nothing and get the giro.
The big difference is the 57 million people living there.
I was saying the difference is in what you feel apprenticeships mean.

[BoristheBiter]

Fair enough. But that's not how everyone saw it. Unfortunately same shit, different "employer". I understand the idea behind the apprenticeship and truly believe that it was hijacked (forcing people into jobs that didn't want to be there, were others who did could have had the place), and damaged, by the YTS. You can seperate the intentions of the schemes all you like, but it's the perception of the potential candidates that matters innit.

I think that had more to do with the caliber of the people on the dole.

[mashman]

No, I think you are right, kids are kids the world over. You have them that want to better themselves and those that don't, those that will do anything to get ahead and those that want someone else to do it for them and then there are those that just want to do nothing and get the giro.
The big difference is the 57 million people living there.
I was saying the difference is in what you feel apprenticeships mean.

True, depending on how you view it, an apprenticeship is a career move, or a way to earn money in the short term... although I know those who chose to stay on the dole because they could make more money. I wouldn't have called them lazy, just "worked" smarter . That extra 57 mill, tis your future! can't sugar coat it any more than that

I think that had more to do with the caliber of the people on the dole.

Potentially, but I wouldn't say it was the rule that you believe it to be. There is a system to be abused. If yer smart enough, you can abuse it, make a decent living and not have to get out of bed til 10. Personal preference. From my point of view, the calibre of "those" people that I knew, was fuckin excellent. They would help anyone out in a jam, they just screwed the system... didn't make them any less human with any less of a mental capacity than you or I.

[Swoop]

Fair enough. But that's not how everyone saw it. Unfortunately same shit, different "employer". I understand the idea behind the apprenticeship and truly believe that it was hijacked (forcing people into jobs that didn't want to be there, were others who did could have had the place), and damaged, by the YTS.

If people do not "see" the difference between the two, they need to do some research.

An employer does not take on an apprentice to do bugger-all. They are employed to learn progress and be a productive member of the company.

If an employer wants a monkey to sweep the floor and make the tea, then a YTS person would be better, especially with the government paying part of the wages. If a good person shows up under that scheme, then that person would be watched and encouraged for a period of time, with the possibility of going on into an apprenticeship being possible the next time the employer takes on an apprentice (normally at the beginning of the year).

An apprentice is "signed up" for up to 5 years, so an employer wants to pick the most suitable person they can!

[mashman]

If people do not "see" the difference between the two, they need to do some research.

I agree. Not everyone gives a shit at that age. Not everyone can be made to give a shit at that age either.

They need to care first. If you go for an apprenticeship because it pays more money, and it's not because it's for your future and a YTS position pops up that pays more... hmmm, I wonder what will happen, contract of employment or not. Some will stay, some will go. YTS or apprenticeship just does not matter to plenty/?most? "kids" in that position, especially the ones who just love to have fun... I worked in supermarkets, on fishing boats, in a boat yard, in a grocery shop, on a shellfish farm, as adhoc labor etc... to fund that life, others took the secure cash flow option , some took apprenticeships (some didn't last long), some worked for the council ... not everyone cares about the difference.

[Swoop]

Agree with your post.

If you go for an apprenticeship because it pays more money

Sometimes it didn't pay too well! The starting wage was above the minimum, but not by much (at times). As you progressed it did get better!

[mashman]

Sometimes it didn't pay too well! The starting wage was above the minimum, but not by much (at times). As you progressed it did get better!

heh, not good enough for the now now now generation eh, and teens and I see no new policies addressing that issue.

[Winston001]

True, depending on how you view it, an apprenticeship is a career move, or a way to earn money in the short term... although I know those who chose to stay on the dole because they could make more money. I wouldn't have called them lazy, just "worked" smarter.

Sorry but with respect - smarter? Really? Avoiding having something meaningful to do each day? Working alongside and enjoying other people? Trying to get a better life in the future?

Staying on the dole doesn't sound too smart to me.

Besides, heaps of people train and study, then earn low wages until they finally get to grips with their trade. I didn't get up to the average wage until I was over 30 and that's with a professional degree. Gotta take the longterm view.

Medical specialists are closer to 40 before they are assessed as competent and fully qualified.

[mashman]

Sorry but with respect - smarter? Really? Avoiding having something meaningful to do each day? Working alongside and enjoying other people? Trying to get a better life in the future?

Staying on the dole doesn't sound too smart to me.

Besides, heaps of people train and study, then earn low wages until they finally get to grips with their trade. I didn't get up to the average wage until I was over 30 and that's with a professional degree. Gotta take the longterm view.

Medical specialists are closer to 40 before they are assessed as competent and fully qualified.

Sorry, I chortled just a little. Yes, smarter. What do you think "they" do all day? stay at home alone doing nothing until the next time they have to go out and thieve something? I'm curious. Who says they aren't working alongside people? They can organise things as a community too ya know. I have no doubt that there's an Anti-Winston amongst them just as smart, just uses the smarts in a different way. They have what they need and get on with it, goals in life achieved. I coulda stayed there forever, but I was one of the ones that wanted the "better" life. To this day I'm still not really sure wether i'm happier now, or wether I was happier then .

They do, We are proof that most people want more money to buy more stuff. There is also proof that some people would rather live their lives than work for a living. So, I think they work smarter to get what they want. They put in less hours doing the actual work, but that gives them more free time to do with what they want.

The price of becoming a doctor I guess.

[marie_speeds]

When I watched the news last night it was strange the way Rodney has walked away with his tail between his legs....not even standing at next election.

Wonder what Brash has got on him??????

[Bald Eagle]

When I watched the news last night it was strange the way Rodney has walked away with his tail between his legs....not even standing at next election.

Wonder what Brash has got on him??????

50 IQ Points and about 9 inches.

[jim.cox]

Anyone else noticed the remarkable similarities between Mr Hide and Zippy The Pinhead?