Should Katman shut the fuck up?

[Spearfish]

The message contains many parts, and can be delivered in many ways....but in the end, it all boils down to the one thing
Be responsible in, and for, your actions.


Must have missed that.
Yes, this is the wrong thread for it, but I don't see why it isn't KB material. This crash/death affected a lot of people, who did a lot of work and soul-searching over the (perhaps erroneous) causes of it. For the whole thing to fade into history without 'real' answers would be a shame.
In terms of KM and his message, many of us looked for anything other than rider error to be the cause of that tragedy. Who of us knew about the tinted visor, for a start?

So there we go first lesson learnt, I can be accused of being caught out a few times with a tinted visor in low viability conditions and being to blasé about changing over.

So was this a very indirect form of education?
I'm not so sure how indirect though I got a lot out of that coroners report.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I can't imagine anyone having the backbone to start the thread anyway.

While we continue to place more importance on not running the risk of upsetting a few people, over and above learning valuable lessons from other peoples mistakes, motorcycling will continue to suffer.

Oi...I take that as a challange! I'm gonna give it some thought, and see if I can think of a way to openly discuss it without it getting nasty.

[StoneY]

Oi...I take that as a challange! I'm gonna give it some thought, and see if I can think of a way to openly discuss it without it getting nasty.

On ya Pete
Good to see this thread is leading to a more willing attitude to have discussions...from all quarters.

I think, if Katman takes one thing from this thread it will be to use a more moderate approach.
And if we all can forget the past flame wars, we may (I say may) all make progress toward finding answers to hard questions, ones we do NOT like asking.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think, if Katman takes one thing from this thread it will be to use a more moderate approach.
.

Don't get too carried away mate!

[StoneY]

Don't get too carried away mate!

Aw man....was thinking of a big hug fest mate........ go on ya know ya wanna....

[Nasty]

Oi...I take that as a challange! I'm gonna give it some thought, and see if I can think of a way to openly discuss it without it getting nasty.

On ya Pete
Good to see this thread is leading to a more willing attitude to have discussions...from all quarters.

I think, if Katman takes one thing from this thread it will be to use a more moderate approach.
And if we all can forget the past flame wars, we may (I say may) all make progress toward finding answers to hard questions, ones we do NOT like asking.

I think that discussion is reasonable taking into account the post from Welsh Wizard http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...t-to-all-KBers ... flame wars etc will be abolished and cause this to be PD'd according to site rules. the report is very interesting reading with a lot of absord and gain understanding from.

remember - any discussions do need to take into account that this young man had family - and they loved him, and still very much do.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think that discussion is reasonable taking into account the post from Welsh Wizard http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...t-to-all-KBers ... flame wars etc will be abolished and cause this to be PD'd according to site rules. the report is very interesting reading with a lot of absord and gain understanding from.

remember - any discussions do need to take into account that this young man had family - and they loved him, and still very much do.

Thanks for showing us that.

[MSTRS:Me]

... I can be accused of being caught out a few times with a tinted visor in low viability conditions....

Not so in this case...
I'd dearly like a thread to discuss the issues (all of them) raised in the report but, like many, am fearful of stepping on (someone's) toes.

[Katman]

Not so in this case...
I'd dearly like a thread to discuss the issues (all of them) raised in the report but, like many, am fearful of stepping on (someone's) toes.

Sometimes you just have to hope that people are wearing steel cap boots.

No-one will die from discussing the topic but there is a very real risk that more could die from not discussing it.

[Spearfish]

remember - any discussions do need to take into account that this young man had family - and they loved him, and still very much do.

My feeling is that this is one corner of the boxing ring I alluded to if this was to be a proper stand alone topic.

They cant and wont be swayed so they will defend with a passion their lost loved one simply because of the old fashioned and noble standpoint of love and support being unconditional!! .
I suspect there are a few on the outer edges of the immediate family who will go into bat for the viewpoint as well.
And their view point isn't wrong.



Unless the debate/chat/discussion is handled very maturely and honestly I cant see any more being learned than what an individual would for themselves reading the report in their own time.

[avgas]

Let me be the first to say, I have defended Daniels innocense, and have blamed the WRB for his death time and time again. In fact the coronor says he died as a result of collision with the WRB so I have no problem defending my stance.

Sorry Mom, your a doll usually.....but in this instance, I'll bite.

If he had come off into a Bulldozer - would then want to ban all bulldozers? Would you sue the construction company for putting a bulldozer, off, but next to the road?

We all make mistakes - I just pray that when we make them, we don't die because of them.

But we can't ride with training wheels.......in a bubble-wrapped world. Riding has risk, we should simply understand and avoid them.

[MSTRS:Me]

The cheesecutter was the big bogey in Daniel's case. Probably unfairly, in this case.
It is all about perceptions, but who of us can honestly say that they're not even just a little nervous when riding adjacent to these barriers?

The problem comes when they are installed in places where the alternative holds a better chance for riders.

[Spearfish]

Sorry Mom, your a doll usually.....but in this instance, I'll bite.

If he had come off into a Bulldozer - would then want to ban all bulldozers? Would you sue the construction company for putting a bulldozer, off, but next to the road?

We all make mistakes - I just pray that when we make them, we don't die because of them.

But we can't ride with training wheels.......in a bubble-wrapped world. Riding has risk, we should simply understand and avoid them.

see post 325

[StoneY]

The cheesecutter was the big bogey in Daniel's case. Probably unfairly, in this case.

It is all about perceptions, but who of us can honestly say that they're not even just a little nervous when riding adjacent to these barriers?

The problem comes when they are installed in places where the alternative holds a better chance for riders.

Yep, speed was the reason for this one BUT I definitely feel the pucker factor when riding anywhere near a WRB...having said that one saved mine and Kelly's skins once in Upper Hutt when a drunk tried to drive through one near \moonshine \bridge

[avgas]

see post 325

Why?

Its not personal - its generic.
As for reading a report about how a motorcyclist died on a WRB. No thanks - I fail to see how it will improve my relationship with them. We have a safe relationship already. I avoid them as much as possible, they don't move (as much as possible).