Fuel taxes!

[SMOKEU]

If you're going to buy a diesel vehicle you might as well either wind back the odometer or disconnect the speedo cable for most of the time to avoid paying all the RUCs.

What makes it worse is the fact that the government is charging higher ACC levys on the licensing of diesel vehicles over petrol vehicles, yet after paying RUCs the cost of diesel vs petrol is about the same per litre if you think about it that way. The muppets in the government clearly haven't put much thought into this if they think that diesels are more dangerous than petrols.

In saying that, I still prefer to drive diesels over petrols most of the time and I can't see myself going back to a petrol car any time soon. If you own a diesel - then do what you can to beat the government at their own game. They rip you off = you rip them off. Fair enough? Give me a reason why it isn't.

[Edbear]

If you're going to buy a diesel vehicle you might as well either wind back the odometer or disconnect the speedo cable for most of the time to avoid paying all the RUCs.

What makes it worse is the fact that the government is charging higher ACC levys on the licensing of diesel vehicles over petrol vehicles, yet after paying RUCs the cost of diesel vs petrol is about the same per litre if you think about it that way. The muppets in the government clearly haven't put much thought into this if they think that diesels are more dangerous than petrols.

In saying that, I still prefer to drive diesels over petrols most of the time and I can't see myself going back to a petrol car any time soon. If you own a diesel - then do what you can to beat the government at their own game. They rip you off = you rip them off. Fair enough? Give me a reason why it isn't.

My favourite engine, outside motorcycles of course, is the turbo-diesel. Technology now has them not just more economical but more powerful and torquey with emissions as low or lower than petrol engines! I just can't get the two figures of the Mondeo 2lt diesel out of my mind. 320NM of torque as against my old Honda Legend's 3.5lt V6 with 311NM! And 50mpg, (5.6lt/100km)! Even with Road tax it just beats the 2.4lt petrol Mondeo in running costs, and matches the Hyundai/Suzuki petrol equivalents. The Mondeo is heavier with substantial safety features which do hurt the fuel economy a bit.

I can't avoid the tax charges however justified you feel it is to do so, my conscience won't allow it. It may seem old fashioned but I'm generally a law-abiding citizen and prefer to lobby for change rather than break the law. Just me...

[NinjaNanna]

Explain to me why the diesel version of a vehicle SHOULD be cheaper to run on NZ roads than the petrol version.

The way I see it, the government has got the costing model just right if the tax take per km is the same for both vehicles.

[Scuba_Steve]

Explain to me why the diesel version of a vehicle SHOULD be cheaper to run on NZ roads than the petrol version.

The way I see it, the government has got the costing model just right if the tax take per km is the same for both vehicles.

it should be cheaper because it is a more economical vehicle using less fuel but because of the extra tax charges to it the cost per k & overall running costs/yr is higher than the same in petrol format & that was before the latest ACC hike on rego & increase in RUC's so I can only assume its much worse now. Also diesel is a cheaper fuel to produce & thus cheaper at pump too so this also should add to less cost in running if we had a fair system

[Woodman]

Edbear have you looked at a Holden Epica diesel? or maybe you need a wagon?
I got a 2010 and am really impressed with it. Just wafts along at naff all revs. 6 speed and all the nanny state safety shit you will ever need. Also more economical than my old focuses at the pump. Bit of an old mans car, but that suits me these days.

I'm a diesel car convert now, but I was talking to a guy the other day who was selling his fleet of diesel vans and utes and replacing with petrols cos he reckons with ruc's and rego etc the petrols will save him a lot of money.

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm a diesel car convert now, but I was talking to a guy the other day who was selling his fleet of diesel vans

any cheap Nissans???

[Woodman]

any cheap Nissans???

Had a couple of late model nissan vans from memory. May have sold them though

[Edbear]

Explain to me why the diesel version of a vehicle SHOULD be cheaper to run on NZ roads than the petrol version.

The way I see it, the government has got the costing model just right if the tax take per km is the same for both vehicles.

it should be cheaper because it is a more economical vehicle using less fuel but because of the extra tax charges to it the cost per k & overall running costs/yr is higher than the same in petrol format & that was before the latest ACC hike on rego & increase in RUC's so I can only assume its much worse now. Also diesel is a cheaper fuel to produce & thus cheaper at pump too so this also should add to less cost in running if we had a fair system

The government should be encouraging us to buy vehicles that are better for the economy and environment, not artificially taxing them to make them uneconomic to run. While I agree with a separate road tax as it means the diesel vehicles not using the roads don't pay it, eg: tractors, farm machinery, boats; it should reflect the true costs per vehicle size and type, which it obviously doesn't as regards smaller cars.

Edbear have you looked at a Holden Epica diesel? or maybe you need a wagon?
I got a 2010 and am really impressed with it. Just wafts along at naff all revs. 6 speed and all the nanny state safety shit you will ever need. Also more economical than my old focuses at the pump. Bit of an old mans car, but that suits me these days.

I'm a diesel car convert now, but I was talking to a guy the other day who was selling his fleet of diesel vans and utes and replacing with petrols cos he reckons with ruc's and rego etc the petrols will save him a lot of money.

I did look at the Holden range, but they fall down on refinement and noise and dynamics by comparison. I really wanted to like the Epica and Captiva, but they just don't quite match up to the Suzuki and Hyundai, incl the ix35, and are well behind the Mondeo. They are made by Daewoo in Korea and while improving and a lot better than Daewoo have done in the past, they are still using older tech for some of the design.

The business owner is probably correct as his accountant will have done the analysis. My son-in-law still runs diesel vans and loves the VW's. Great vans, too!

[avgas]

I did look at the Holden range, but they fall down on refinement and noise and dynamics by comparison. I really wanted to like the Epica and Captiva, but they just don't quite match up to the Suzuki and Hyundai, incl the ix35, and are well behind the Mondeo.

Not too sure about the Mondeo - but my Focus is made in Spain and build quality is rubbish in comparison to the koreans.
Even the GM Korean stuff is quite nice as Holden seem to add their own little touches for Aus/NZ market.
I was fortunate enough to drive my old Holden Viva equivalent in China. Chevy something? The NZ version had stiffer suspension, better stereo, better dash.....it was a completely different car from the one in China. So while the shell comes from Korea, Holden do a crap load of work on it when it his Aus shores.
Likewise new captiva is leagues ahead of the horrible old one.

What didn't you like about the Suzuki? I was impressed with their Swift sport, it was faster than my Focus was. Oh yeah on that note don't buy into the hype about the TDCi being better than the petrol, they aren't......the claimed figures are what it can do - but because they put and "economy" program in the Diesels. The TDCi only produces about 2/3rds of its claimed power/torque in comparison to the petrol that produces the whole wack.
Every now and then you can confuse the computer - but not if you have less than half a tank, and not if you have driven calmly for the last 5 minutes......

Didn't know about the pug engine thing. I have always assumed it was a Volvo engine......

[Edbear]

Not too sure about the Mondeo - but my Focus is made in Spain and build quality is rubbish in comparison to the koreans.
Even the GM Korean stuff is quite nice as Holden seem to add their own little touches for Aus/NZ market.
I was fortunate enough to drive my old Holden Viva equivalent in China. Chevy something? The NZ version had stiffer suspension, better stereo, better dash.....it was a completely different car from the one in China. So while the shell comes from Korea, Holden do a crap load of work on it when it his Aus shores.
Likewise new captiva is leagues ahead of the horrible old one.

What didn't you like about the Suzuki? I was impressed with their Swift sport, it was faster than my Focus was. Oh yeah on that note don't buy into the hype about the TDCi being better than the petrol, they aren't......the claimed figures are what it can do - but because they put and "economy" program in the Diesels. The TDCi only produces about 2/3rds of its claimed power/torque in comparison to the petrol that produces the whole wack.
Every now and then you can confuse the computer - but not if you have less than half a tank, and not if you have driven calmly for the last 5 minutes......

Didn't know about the pug engine thing. I have always assumed it was a Volvo engine......

I do like the Suzuki it's top equal on the list with the Hyundai i45 for petrol. I'll have a look at the Epica, as I do like the size, I was going by road reports I've been looking up on all the vehicles, trying to get some idea of differences to look for between them when we start driving them. I think the ix35 Hyundai has it over the Captiva but again, I can check that for myself. I'm now in a bit of confusion over the petrol v. diesel question and will have to drive the Mondeo to see whether it is any better overall than the petrol's.

Son-in-law has a Focus diesel for his work car and likes the power and economy, but says it's got too much turbo lag. Ultimate economy is the Fiesta turbo diesel, only available in manual, but it does get near 80mpg or 3.6l/100km! Have a lot to go over and will also be taking into account what Mrs. Bear likes as she deserves a car she wants as well.

The diesel's in the Fords are the PRV cooperative, Peugeot, Renault, Volvo and seem to have a good rep.

[SMOKEU]

My favourite engine, outside motorcycles of course, is the turbo-diesel. Technology now has them not just more economical but more powerful and torquey with emissions as low or lower than petrol engines! I just can't get the two figures of the Mondeo 2lt diesel out of my mind. 320NM of torque as against my old Honda Legend's 3.5lt V6 with 311NM! And 50mpg, (5.6lt/100km)! Even with Road tax it just beats the 2.4lt petrol Mondeo in running costs, and matches the Hyundai/Suzuki petrol equivalents. The Mondeo is heavier with substantial safety features which do hurt the fuel economy a bit.

Have a look at this 2.2L diesel Hyundai http://www.hyundai.co.nz/new-cars/santa-fe/

145kW and 436Nm of torque from 1800RPM! All from a 2.2L engine!

That has more torque than the current model 3.6L Commodore.

What I would really like a V10 diesel Touareg.

[Edbear]

Have a look at this 2.2L diesel Hyundai http://www.hyundai.co.nz/new-cars/santa-fe/

145kW and 436Nm of torque from 1800RPM! All from a 2.2L engine!

That has more torque than the current model 3.6L Commodore.

What I would really like a V10 diesel Touareg.

Now you're talking! The Santa Fe is out of our price bracket unfotrunately but the ix35 is within it. Even that puts out an incredible 390NM from its 2lt!

As for the V10, I've wanted one since the Phaeton came out with it!

[SMOKEU]

Now you're talking! The Santa Fe is out of our price bracket unfotrunately but the ix35 is within it. Even that puts out an incredible 390NM from its 2lt!

As for the V10, I've wanted one since the Phaeton came out with it!

As good as the new diesels are, they are being pushed harder and harder to develop more torque and power than ever before. I wonder what todays crop of diesels will be like in 20 years from now. I doubt they would age as well as the naturally aspirated diesels of yesteryear.

Still, I wouldn't say no to one of them new diesels.

[Edbear]

As good as the new diesels are, they are being pushed harder and harder to develop more torque and power than ever before. I wonder what todays crop of diesels will be like in 20 years from now. I doubt they would age as well as the naturally aspirated diesels of yesteryear.

Still, I wouldn't say no to one of them new diesels.

You've got a point, though. Just look at the four-stroke MX/Motard bikes, esp. such like the Aprillia V-twins. Fantastic performance but hardly a '75 XR250 for long life are they? Still, properly serviced from new, they should be good for a while. Our '99 Nissan Pulsar petrol auto has now done 191,000km and the motor and trans are still as good as new. Still got the original exhaust even. It's in much better condition than most of the Jap imports with much lower k's.

[avgas]

Son-in-law has a Focus diesel for his work car and likes the power and economy, but says it's got too much turbo lag.

Tell him to take it into a ford dealer for a "service".
I just did my 60k service, and my car came back to me with mysterious new little wastegate/blowoff valve thing. Under load, the dropping load makes a little noise like all the boy racer cars.
Not quite a pphhhhhish! but you can hear it.......

Magically most of my lag problems have gone. However that damn computer is going to be the bane of my life.......
But yeah what the hell is the deal with the Focus. For $35K I would expect full electric windows, not just the front seats?????