Bismarck tried to surrender?

[FJRider]

Even AFTER the second world war ... Good old NZ found itself in armed conflict's due to treaty's we had ... and still do ...

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Even AFTER the second world war ... Good old NZ found itself in armed conflict's due to treaty's we had ... and still do ...

Not because of a treaty but because it is part of an empire.

Big difference.

Being a party to a military treaty means that you will be either "allied" or "neutral" in regards to the other party.

Being part of an empire means that you can rely upon the empire to commit its resources to defending itself, or its allies.

It is a two way thing - if NZ found itself being threatened by another party it could rely upon being part of the British empire, with its associated allies (NATO etc). A seriously under-rated point when people talk about independence.

[GrayWolf]

Oh crap.
Remind me to Never ever dispute warship design or terminology with you again, for my sake.

My understanding of older ships were they relied on compartmentalisation - could lose certain sections of the ship without it sinking - or having a too dramatic effect on other compartments. And that no real thought was given to the entire 'centre areas' of a ship were looked at as a Whole / ie damaging one compartment would breach the citadel implying reducing the effectiveness of all compartments?
Arghhhh. I think I better stop there lol.

Nah you are correct, the compartments were for 'flooding' sans Titanic, (it's achilles heel was the compartments did not go the full height of the ship and allowed 'spill over' as she flooded).BB compartmentalisation was complex.
Basicaly add the two together, armoured vitals, controls and weaponry to protect from shell entry, and compartments to control flooding. The 'void spaces' were specificaly designed to allow an 'air gap' to diffuse a torpedo explosion, and allowed for 'controlled flooding'. outside of the armoured belt a torpedo hole could easily be as big as 4x11 metres as seen from the Prince of Wales/Renown dives.
Dont forget a 15 inch armour piercing shell wieghed about 2300kg and impacted at about 850mtrs per second, that takes a lot of stopping.

[Katman]

No one cared about dead Poles, murdered Jews or millions of dead Chinese, let alone the reassimilation of millions of German people separated from their countrymen by overly punitive treaty restrictions post-WW1.

And it was the brutally oppressive restrictions that were imposed by a vindictive collective under the guise of The Treaty of Versailles that created a perfect climate for someone of Hilter's charisma to entrance an entire nation.

[FJRider]

Not because of a treaty but because it is part of an empire.

I was refering to the conflicts we engage(d) in with the good ole US of A ... NO empire issues there ...

[jaffaonajappa]

I was refering to the conflicts we engage(d) in with the good ole US of A ... NO empire issues there ...

Errr. Which ones exactly? Vietnam?
Or are you counting non-combat roles too?

[FJRider]

Errr. Which ones exactly? Vietnam?
Or are you counting non-combat roles too?

Anywhere the yanks go ... WE go ...

Ever wondered WHY ... ???

AND ... if weapons are taken ... it IS a combat role ...

No matter what you see on the tv ....

[jaffaonajappa]

Anywhere the yanks go ... WE go ...

Ever wondered WHY ... ???

AND ... if weapons are taken ... it IS a combat role ...

No matter what you see on the tv ....

Absolute bullshit.

[FJRider]

Absolute bullshit.

You never heard of ANZUS ... ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS

[Maha]

Anywhere the yanks go ... WE go ...

Ever wondered WHY ... ???

AND ... if weapons are taken ... it IS a combat role ...

No matter what you see on the tv ....

Yes! even the Moon....

[jaffaonajappa]

You never heard of ANZUS ... ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS

NZ's by far biggest overseas role in last 10 years has been in timor. Fuck all yanks there.

Yanks biggest conflict was Iraq. Fuck all kiwis went there.

Yes, in these 2 examples, theres a couple of one-off exceptions. But the point remains. We rarely support USA-led conflicts (unlike USA's buddy, our neighbour, Australia.), but we seem to pull our weight, plus a bit, on select UN sanctioned peace keeping ops.

Note that the yanks are trying to gear up NATO, they appear unhahppy with their ability to steer the UN as much as they wish they could.

[FJRider]

NZ's by far biggest overseas role in last 10 years has been in timor. Fuck all yanks there.

You forget about Afganistan ... ???

Yanks biggest conflict was Iraq. Fuck all kiwis went there.

Engineers, RNZAF (Orion crews), RNZN Friggate's ... A sizeable number all told ...

Yes, in these 2 examples, theres a couple of one-off exceptions. But the point remains. We rarely support USA-led conflicts (unlike USA's buddy, our neighbour, Australia.), but we seem to pull our weight, plus a bit, on select UN sanctioned peace keeping ops.

During the Anti-Nuclear "phase" ... we didn't ... and the Aussies DID ... But the USA and us are friends again ... ( look up The Wellington Declaration)

Note that the yanks are trying to gear up NATO, they appear unhahppy with their ability to steer the UN as much as they wish they could.

You mean steer NATO away from letting the Russians join ... ???

[jaffaonajappa]

Afghanistan? I know it well. So does my missus. Look up what NZ is actually over there for. And yes, it pales in comparison to what we(NZ) did in Timor, and continue to do today.

Iraq. Yep, a company of army engineers for a short duration. Then NZ assisted in the UN led embargo in the arabian gulf. Not iraq combat.

[jaffaonajappa]

You mean steer NATO away from letting the Russians join ... ???

No. I mean the USA seems to dislike the way the UN sees things, and seems to be trying to make NATO a new style UN. ie, worldwide treaty, not just north atlantic plus a couple of select specials....but one in which USA often holds the trump/veto vote.

Whereas NZ firmly supports majority of UN sanctions and direction. Fingers crossed we still get that security council seat next year!

[huff3r]

Afghanistan? I know it well. So does my missus. Look up what NZ is actually over there for. And yes, it pales in comparison to what we(NZ) did in Timor, and continue to do today.

Iraq. Yep, a company of army engineers for a short duration. Then NZ assisted in the UN led embargo in the arabian gulf. Not iraq combat.

He is right y'know. The only combat kiwi soldiers are involved with in Afghan (apart from the SAS) is when it's forced upon them, and even then very rarely. And im not relying on the media for that information, I don't need to.