New Zealand bike prices WTF

[Blackflagged]

Bickering about GST is amusing, same as with 'ol Harvey in Oz recently. People aren't buying stuff from overseas to save 15% GST, it's more like 30%+ on any stuff I've bothered to bring in. Dodging the GST now & then is just a nice bonus.

Cheers
Clint

Seems the Warehouse nz here has joined in with same complaint. What would they know, there just saying that ;-)

[imdying]

Ok, my experience has been opposite.

That's completely what I expected also. I'm not in a related trade, and I always have them marked as "Attention xxxxx". I also expected that to change when their new computer system came in, and still expect it to at some stage.

[Robert Taylor]

PeeJay you are coming across a tad agro to RT dude, what are you implying here ?

private people dont pay GST for goods under $400 a business would have rocks in their head to import such small volumes and therefore pay a higher freight rate per unit. that might be the argument?

Yeah I cant believe the agro attitude either. It just seems that there are some people that really get off on arguing.
Like Ive also said Ive adapted to the realities. In particular currency is distorting everything. And Im more than abundantly aware of the money go round and the cost of doing business.
Grizzling? No. Just stating the flipside.
''Authorised distributors'' like my business spend more than a little time sorting out the box sales of parallell importers / fly by night operators. Or everyday customers who were led to believe that ''its straight bolt in and is optimised for you''. A tui moment there!
Maybe its because we have all the equipment, training and experience. No apologies for having an old world attitude about after sales service.

[ukusa]

I found this interesting reading, taken from an Australian bike guide mag, part of the editorial.

Better believe it: retail is changing, and it will be beyond recognition before the rate of change even slows down. No matter how low the cuttoff for GST on private imports, they won't be stopped. Retailers all over the world will need to adapt, or they will find their margins evaporating and their businesses becoming less viable.
Of course, it's hard to believe the way of selling goods that's served humanity since well before the time of jesus is coming to an end. But incredulity, like ignorance of the law, is not a defence. For retailers it's change, or be changed by forces beyond your control.
The belief common among riders that things can just go on the way they are, only with cheaper goods for all from the net, is simply naive. Buy your spares, accessories, clothes - and even bikes, now - over the net and you will find that eventually there will simply be no bike shops as we know them left in this country, because nobody can make a living from a bit of servicing and repair. Especially when the customer has bought the parts from overseas and just wants you to fit them! Sounds unlikely? I've heard of it happening already. Incredible but true.

[SS90]

You dont really know how gst works do you

From NZ customs website

Should I have you clear the vehicle in my own
name or under a company name?
If you use a GST registered company name, you
may be able to claim back any GST paid from Inland Revenue.

Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund.
If its for personal use and you are just trying it on, and IRD thinks this, you wont be getting the gst back

PeeJay,

I think you are commenting outside your pay grade here.
The discussion started on difference between bike prices overseas and prices in NZ.

I assure you, if a company imports a motor vehicles (or vehicles) into NZ, they are subject to GST, this GST is not refundable.... if the company imports a motor vehicle for THE PURPOSE OF USING IT AS A COMPANY VEHICLE, then the GST exponent can be refunded.

Like I said, the is no tarrif on imported vehicles into NZ, but there is GST, and that GST is not refundable (in the case of vehicles that have been imported for on selling)

This is one reason why businesses importing bikes into NZ have costs others (private people who simply misrepresent the situation for example) simply don't.

This is the difference between a company operating as an importer, where they import bikes (for example) with the express purpose of selling them (either wholesale, or retail).

If you import ONE bike, ( for your company use), then you can indeed claim the GST back.... if you import 25 to on sell, then you cannot.

It's that simple.

Its a Tarrif, by another name.

There is no Tarrifs on imported vehicles to NZ, but there is GST, and if the vehicle has been imported to on sell, then the GST is not refundable.

[PeeJay]

PeeJay,

I think you are commenting outside your pay grade here.
The discussion started on difference between bike prices overseas and prices in NZ.

I assure you, if a company imports a motor vehicles (or vehicles) into NZ, they are subject to GST, this GST is not refundable.... if the company imports a motor vehicle for THE PURPOSE OF USING IT AS A COMPANY VEHICLE, then the GST exponent can be refunded.

Like I said, the is no tarrif on imported vehicles into NZ, but there is GST, and that GST is not refundable (in the case of vehicles that have been imported for on selling)

This is one reason why businesses importing bikes into NZ have costs others (private people who simply misrepresent the situation for example) simply don't.

This is the difference between a company operating as an importer, where they import bikes (for example) with the express purpose of selling them (either wholesale, or retail).

If you import ONE bike, ( for your company use), then you can indeed claim the GST back.... if you import 25 to on sell, then you cannot.

It's that simple.

Its a Tarrif, by another name.

There is no Tarrifs on imported vehicles to NZ, but there is GST, and if the vehicle has been imported to on sell, then the GST is not refundable.

Hmm I'm so far down the ladder I dont have a pay grade
When you did your course on obfuscation you should have taken remedial reading as well.
You obviously didnt understand this
"Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund"
I suppose I should have qualified it with "your business has to be gst registered"

Where did you get your information regarding vehicle imports and gst?
Obviously not from IRD, sounds like it came from a salesman in a shop trying to justify higher prices by blaming the govt.
Almost every line is factually inaccurate
Have a good read of gst guide IR375, available on the ird website. Send IRD an email and ask them.

[PeeJay]

Yeah I cant believe the agro attitude either. It just seems that there are some people that really get off on arguing.
Like Ive also said Ive adapted to the realities. In particular currency is distorting everything. And Im more than abundantly aware of the money go round and the cost of doing business.
Grizzling? No. Just stating the flipside.
''Authorised distributors'' like my business spend more than a little time sorting out the box sales of parallell importers / fly by night operators. Or everyday customers who were led to believe that ''its straight bolt in and is optimised for you''. A tui moment there!
Maybe its because we have all the equipment, training and experience. No apologies for having an old world attitude about after sales service.

Well considering you haven't refuted any of my points regarding the business expenses you use as examples of the advantages private importers have, and when it is shown that that your so called business disadvantages are actually advantages you are silent on the subject.
I can only assume you have been deliberately using these half-truths and misinformation to bolster your point of view.
Because I am sure you would claim all the gst you are entitled to, and you would enter all the customs charges etc as non taxable expenses.

If I am wrong I would apologise profusely, and suggest you get a new accountant.

[Robert Taylor]

Well considering you haven't refuted any of my points regarding the business expenses you use as examples of the advantages private importers have, and when it is shown that that your so called business disadvantages are actually advantages you are silent on the subject.
I can only assume you have been deliberately using these half-truths and misinformation to bolster your point of view.
Because I am sure you would claim all the gst you are entitled to, and you would enter all the customs charges etc as non taxable expenses.

If I am wrong I would apologise profusely, and suggest you get a new accountant.

I think that its got a lot more to do with having time to be predisposed to having an argumentative disposition. The costs and money go round that occurs with tax are very complex, as any businessman or accountant would tell you. Im not going to waste 2000 or more words when sorry I can make better use of my time than trying to convince the unconvincable. If youve got all of the answers why dont you start a retail motorcycle shop? There are plenty for sale at present.............

[SS90]

Hmm I'm so far down the ladder I dont have a pay grade
When you did your course on obfuscation you should have taken remedial reading as well.
You obviously didnt understand this
"Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund"
I suppose I should have qualified it with "your business has to be gst registered"

Where did you get your information regarding vehicle imports and gst?
Obviously not from IRD, sounds like it came from a salesman in a shop trying to justify higher prices by blaming the govt.
Almost every line is factually inaccurate
Have a good read of gst guide IR375, available on the ird website. Send IRD an email and ask them.

Tell ya what Sonny..... why don't you start importing a few bikes, and see what happens..... I have been doing it a while now.

[PeeJay]

Tell ya what Sonny..... why don't you start importing a few bikes, and see what happens..... I have been doing it a while now.

Tell ya what Sonny, you need to start paying for good advice
If your claim is being denied there will be a reason.
Ask for it.

A little side business I am involved in, we import vans and light trucks.
We have no problems claiming the gst.

Without stating the obvious you are gst registered arent you?

[PeeJay]

I think that its got a lot more to do with having time to be predisposed to having an argumentative disposition. The costs and money go round that occurs with tax are very complex, as any businessman or accountant would tell you. Im not going to waste 2000 or more words when sorry I can make better use of my time than trying to convince the unconvincable. If youve got all of the answers why dont you start a retail motorcycle shop? There are plenty for sale at present.............

All I have done is point out some anomalies in your argument
Rather than address those points you try to ignore them and hope no-one notices.

As an aside, our business imports and exports. We deal with gst, customs, IRD, on a regular basis.
The NZ tax system is one of the least complex systems I have worked in, and that includes Australia UK and the USA

You might call me aggro but what irks me is your deliberate attempt to mislead regarding business expenses relating to gst and importing charges.

Business is tough in NZ, especially if you are in a domestic service industry.
By and large motorcycles are toys and when money gets tight people have to prioritise their spending. They also look more closely at the $$ they are spending. If a $$ saving can be be made by shopping in another town, city, or country, then thats what will happen.

I certainly dont have all the answers and even if I did I would be unlikely to put money into a motorcycle retail shop.

Have a good day

[Quasievil]

I certainly dont have all the answers

Interesting comment given your apparent expertise dude

if I did I would be unlikely to put money into a motorcycle retail shop.

Is that because you would be under the scrutiny of KB plonkers with opinions and arseholes

[SS90]

A little side business I am involved in, we import vans and light trucks.
We have no problems claiming the gst.

Without stating the obvious you are gst registered arent you?

GST, not currently, I am cuurently MWst registered though, so I have experience in NZ, and Europe...... iun Europe you can claim back the VAT, but not the duty.....

I would be suspect of your business..... because I have been doing this the better part of 15 years.

Actually, going by your accounting, I must be owed serious money from I.R, I will be sure tyo tell them that according to someone on Kiwibiker, they have to refund me all my GST payments on imported motor vehicles that I have sold....... I'll teach those theiving bastards..... Grrrrr!

[johan]

How does this import GST stuff work?

Say I have a business, GST registered.
I import a bike and I pay $500 GST on the import.
I sell the bike, add my margin, the customer pay me $600 in GST.

That's all this business do for this GST period.

In the end I owe IRD $100?
Or is the import GST a special case that can't be balanced against what I'm selling for, so I owe them $600?

Please educate me.

[PeeJay]

How does this import GST stuff work?

Say I have a business, GST registered.
I import a bike and I pay $500 GST on the import.
I sell the bike, add my margin, the customer pay me $600 in GST.

That's all this business do for this GST period.

In the end I owe IRD $100?
Or is the import GST a special case that can't be balanced against what I'm selling for, so I owe them $600?


Please educate me.

$100 .