Architects, designers, builders, here?

**Colapop** · 12th July 2011, 17:39

I have AutoCAD 2012 for my own use and have been playing with a couple of house design ideas. The basic idea I have is that I'd like to design a house with a large concrete wall (maybe) as a passive solar storage device and run beams off it to a glass panel wall and create large open living areas. I'd like to make it a cheap as possible but utilise as many 'green' design features as possible. Anyone have any info on green design?

**Laava** · 12th July 2011, 17:44

You are not talking about a cheap house. What sort of money do you have to spend roughly and what size floor area?

**Colapop** · 12th July 2011, 17:52

Dunno - What is the $/m2 ratio these days? I want to try and employ facets of design that aren't specific green design cost items. Like a concrete wall that distributes heat?

As an aside - what is cheaper - concrete or timber on piles? I don't have access to a Rawlinsons or the memory to QS the project

**Laava** · 12th July 2011, 18:07

How long is a piece of string? I can build a house for $1000m2 but I wouldn't want to live in it! Prob the average Golden homes type 3 brm would be around $1500 but you could be looking at double! There are so many factors that would influence that. If you can come up with a design yourself, then you would be best to then take it to a draughtsman to draw it up. This is the point you can start pricing. There is no magic program that spits out plans, they all require hard work and if that is not your field of expertise then you are going to have to pay someone to do it. A plain conc wall is cheap enough to build but it is all the extra stuff that you don't see that costs so much money. Such as; heating system pipework/wiring, engineering, insulation, fittings, specialist steelwork, specialist conc laying/finishing etc.

**Colapop** · 12th July 2011, 18:16

Yeah I do have some draughting/design exp. Just trying to think around an issue rather than buy an off the shelf solution. Probable floor area around 220m2 and guessing quality of build around 1700 - 1900 /m2.
I'd like to use Glulam beams or timber for any large spans as opposed to steel. It'll probably be two level and def double glazed.
I haven't used steel framing but gather it's not too bad - your thoughts?

**JimO** · 12th July 2011, 19:08

around 2k a m2 but if you want green fancy shit you can double it

**Brett** · 12th July 2011, 20:15

Originally Posted by Colapop

I have AutoCAD 2012 for my own use and have been playing with a couple of house design ideas. The basic idea I have is that I'd like to design a house with a large concrete wall (maybe) as a passive solar storage device and run beams off it to a glass panel wall and create large open living areas. I'd like to make it a cheap as possible but utilise as many 'green' design features as possible. Anyone have any info on green design?

Mate, I am happy to help where I can with advice etc. I have done a few houses and looked at various case studies on ESD design principles etc. It is fundamentally simple when it boils down to it, but it is important to always keep usability in mind as well.

Passive heat sinks are a fantastic idea. I don't think enough building are designed around trapping and holding heat in winter and being cool in summer. Just be aware of how the building will operate as a whole.

Not an architect, but am/was a construction manager and managed the end to end process, so I know how the the architectural design end works.

**Brett** · 12th July 2011, 20:24

Originally Posted by Colapop

Dunno - What is the $/m2 ratio these days? I want to try and employ facets of design that aren't specific green design cost items. Like a concrete wall that distributes heat?

As an aside - what is cheaper - concrete or timber on piles? I don't have access to a Rawlinsons or the memory to QS the project

Mate, this the piece of string type question. It all depends on how you put the structure together, the levels of finishes, whether you build it yourself (ie project manage it) or get a someone in to be the main contractor and you are effectively hands off. Also, are you going to be calling in mates rates on anything? I just built our house, pretty high spec by all accounts, called in favours from brother who is a sparky, did all the floor tiling myself (paid tiler to do all tiled showers) even installed the insulation myself etc. and brought it in at just on $1300/m2. This was about 3 years ago. A main contractor would charge about $2500-$2700/m2 for the equivalent house without me having to do anything other than sign cheques. But hey, I really had to work hard to make the savings I did, and the relationships I had with some suppliers etc. really made a massive difference as they really came to the party when I told them it was my own place.

As for the concrete slab vs timber piles query, this largely depends on the nature of the earth works on the site. if they were both on a dead level site, they would be within 10% of each other. However, they are usually used in very varying types of geotechnical environments, so it is very hard to compare. On a very steep site, poles can be much cheaper. Don't forget, your concrete slab can be one of your biggest thermal masses used to trap heat... The whole "green" thing is just a catch phrase. What you are really talking about is employing construction methodologies to best harness the natural properties of the materials and where possible to exploit them even further than what they would normally be capable of.

I can email you a copy of 2006 (I think) Rawlinsons, but to be fair, this is not a great way to gauge cost IMO. best thing is to come up with a concept design, get it to a point where you can get cost estimates and then adjust from there as necessary.

**fuknKIWI** · 12th July 2011, 20:28

Talk to the insurance companies they're telling people you can heaps with fuck all

**Brett** · 12th July 2011, 20:32

Originally Posted by Colapop

Yeah I do have some draughting/design exp. Just trying to think around an issue rather than buy an off the shelf solution. Probable floor area around 220m2 and guessing quality of build around 1700 - 1900 /m2.
I'd like to use Glulam beams or timber for any large spans as opposed to steel. It'll probably be two level and def double glazed.
I haven't used steel framing but gather it's not too bad - your thoughts?

I think that if you are going to manage it yourself, your budget is achievable. Just be willing to look for deals, such as end of run carpets etc. We got some Villeroy& Boch hand basins for the bathroom that usually retail/trade at $1500 each or so (just for the ceramic basin) for $299 each because they were brought in as samples to show Mico staff, were all still in boxes, never opened.

On the timber beams thing, there is a limit to the extent to which timber can span, but on a house of 220m2 I doubt your spans are going to be anything huge, but the prenail boys will be able to help you on this. Size up what you need and give them a call, they will tell you whether it is doable or not. Every glulam or ganglam beam is a "specifically engineered" items.
Steel framing as opposed to prenail timber is awesome. It is however a lot less flexible in terms of changes post manufacture, but that isn't to say it can't be changed. Just a bit more of a pain in the arse, thats all. I build our houses with timber framing, but that is more a familiarity thing really, I would be more than happy to build something out of steel as well.

**mashman** · 12th July 2011, 21:00

I'd love to go for some form of dome or rounded oblong with as much glass in it as possible, tile the floors and build internal walls of concrete for heatsinks...

**flyingcrocodile46** · 12th July 2011, 23:25

Originally Posted by Colapop

I have AutoCAD 2012 for my own use and have been playing with a couple of house design ideas. The basic idea I have is that I'd like to design a house with a large concrete wall (maybe) as a passive solar storage device and run beams off it to a glass panel wall and create large open living areas. I'd like to make it a cheap as possible but utilise as many 'green' design features as possible. Anyone have any info on green design?

http://www.nzgbc.org.nz/main/greenstar

A good place to start for local benchmark criteria. I recall Googling green design a few years back and was blown away by the number of different and simple clever ideas. It would be worth spending a couple of weeks checking it all out to see what range of ideas can work with the design concept you want then evaluate them to work out the best solution for your budget. It isn't really possible to give an estimate for a M2 rate without a pretty detailed scoping of the build, but would suggest that you budget upward of $2.3k M2 for a serious attempt at a 3 star or better rating.

**Brett** · 12th July 2011, 23:30

Originally Posted by flyingcrocodile46

http://www.nzgbc.org.nz/main/greenstar

A good place to start.

A good resource, agreed. Only worked with them once, doing a 10,000m2 commercial office/retail building in Greenlane to 4 star standard. Was interesting, I learnt a helluva lot going through the whole process. Including some things that ESD proponents love that I think are shit, such as low VOC glues, they just didn't work! Although, they have come a long long way in the last 3 or 4 years.

Just confirming colapop, you just want the ESD principles, not really wanting to get house officially rated?

**fokky** · 12th July 2011, 23:42

Heaps of info on earth building,permaculture and alternative energy sites.Just have to sift out the hippy woven yaks tails and peddling a bike to run ya microwave crap.

**flyingcrocodile46** · 12th July 2011, 23:51

Originally Posted by fokky

Heaps of info on earth building,permaculture and alternative energy sites.Just have to sift out the hippy woven yaks tails and peddling a bike to run ya microwave crap.

Lol. I found some of the "hippy" (or semi hippy) ideas to be the more interesting. But not so practical or visually appealing.