Dreams are not quite free, but maybe opportunities can come along?

[Edbear]

No ed...don't do it!

I personally make an effort NOT to buy anything! from china, not JUST because the products are cheap and poorly made.....but mostly because I don't support SLAVERY! and Environmental destruction in the name of profit.

Slavery:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/wo...4.6160781.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...635144,00.html

Pollution:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/wo...a/26china.html

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/...tion-in-china/

China is slowly destroying the worlds economy with slave labour, AND the environment with pollution and waste products...and they just don't care!

Don't go near them Ed, support a local company or another country that makes good products and pays fair wages, without destroying the environment during the process.

To support China's products, is to support the manner in which they are made and ALL of there dodgy business practices.

Sorry Mate, you know I always respect your point of view, and always wish you the best....but you asked for Honest opinions...thats mine.

Screw China!

I appreciate your point of view, mate and ethical questions can be asked of most countries, including the US, Britain and Aus. NZ trades with many countries around the world that all have issues we don't like, including India, Pakistan, SA, Japan and Korea.

All third-world and developing countries have issues of low wage, slave wage and unsafe working conditions. Developed countries have issues of underhand business practices, protection, deceipt in misrepresenting research, fraud, kickbacks and even sabotage. The real issue is where do you draw the line and who do you choose to do business with?

I do, where possible, support NZ businesses and if I could source these products locally at a reasonable price I'd be happy! My main supplier is a near 100 year-old NZ company, but even the majority of their products now come from the US and China. You'd be hard pushed to find any company in NZ wholly using NZ made stock. For plumbing supplies, we do sell a lot of NZ manufactured cylinders, and they are the best in the world, but again, even for the name brands, most come from either Australia, Israel or the UK. Most solar panels are now made in China regardless of brand as is a large percentage of copper pipe and fittings.

Our Fermit lubricant/sealer for pipe-fitting is made in Germany by a 100+ year-old company there.

Most small motorcycles and scooters are now made in China, regardless of brand an more and more components are China sourced even for the likes of Harley. Honda makes nearly all its small engines in China along with Yamaha and probably all the manufacturers.

So you see the dilemma facing everyone? NZ just cannot compete in large volume manufacturing. Even Systema which makes all those plastic containers admits it would be cheaper to produce in China but they are managing to buck the system and keep production here, accepting a lower margin for the sake of being NZ Made. They deserve all the support they can get, but they are a rare story, now.

[willytheekid]

I appreciate your point of view, mate and ethical questions can be asked of most countries, including the US, Britain and Aus. NZ trades with many countries around the world that all have issues we don't like, including India, Pakistan, SA, Japan and Korea.

All third-world and developing countries have issues of low wage, slave wage and unsafe working conditions. Developed countries have issues of underhand business practices, protection, deceipt in misrepresenting research, fraud, kickbacks and even sabotage. The real issue is where do you draw the line and who do you choose to do business with?

So you see the dilemma facing everyone? NZ just cannot compete in large volume manufacturing. Even Systema which makes all those plastic containers admits it would be cheaper to produce in China but they are managing to buck the system and keep production here, accepting a lower margin for the sake of being NZ Made. They deserve all the support they can get, but they are a rare story, now.

A Great, well thought out reply as usual Ed

This Line sums the situation up nicely:

"The real issue is where do you draw the line and who do you choose to do business with?"

-My Line is clearly drawn...I would rather pay more for my products and ensure quality and fair trade (or as close to it as possible)...than to support the most corrupt, polluting, slave market on the planet.

But you raise an excellent argument....as usual!

All the Best Ed

[Edbear]

A Great, well thought out reply as usual Ed

This Line sums the situation up nicely:

"The real issue is where do you draw the line and who do you choose to do business with?"

-My Line is clearly drawn...I would rather pay more for my products and ensure quality and fair trade (or as close to it as possible)...than to support the most corrupt, polluting, slave market on the planet.

But you raise an excellent argument....as usual!

All the Best Ed

Thanks mate, I think too, the part I've put in bold sums up the issue well. When much of everything you buy has at least some connection with China, it becomes very blurred when you try to separate products out as to source of origin.

Certainly my target market is those who would pay a bit more for quality, hence selling Streamlight and Pelican torches and lights from the USA and Nanuk, (Canadian), cases. But every single dry powder fire extinguisher you buy, regardless of brand, is now made in China as are pretty much all smoke alarms.

Next time you're in a furniture shop and admiring a nice Oak dining suite, have a look underneath, it's probably made in China.

It's not an easy issue to sort out and I can't criticise anyone for their views. The ideal is simply unatainable in reality and like it or not, in future most consumer goods for bulk manufacture will be made in China. With manufacturers like Honda, Audi and Mercedes, Snap-On etc. now manufacturing in China it's only a matter of time...

[Indiana_Jones]

It's not an easy issue to sort out and I can't criticise anyone for their views. The ideal is simply unatainable in reality and like it or not, in future most consumer goods for bulk manufacture will be made in China. With manufacturers like Honda, Audi and Mercedes, Snap-On etc. now manufacturing in China it's only a matter of time...

Many companies have gone to China to simpley survive I guess.

It's not all bad though, my last Hornby loco was made in China and must say the quality was very good and very detailed. But the difference being is that they have crackers running the show and telling them what's good enough and what isn't.

I have no issue with buying Chinese made good as long as they're not made with slave labour and have western styled/managed qulaity control. Sadly one doesn't know this most of the time when buying though.

-Indy

[willytheekid]

It's not an easy issue to sort out and I can't criticise anyone for their views. The ideal is simply unatainable in reality and like it or not, in the future most consumer goods for bulk manufacture will be made in China.

Thanks Ed, your right as usual....Its not an easy issue to sort out.
And Yes, Most of the products now days have a connection to china (drives my betterhalf NUTS when she takes me shopping lol).
Guess Im just one of those moral driven dreamers, who wants to see everyone paid fairly, teated as equals and enjoying a clean green world...sigh

But as a great man once said

"We must become the change we want to see"

......Mahatma Gandhi
....smart guy

Respectfully

WillyTheeKid

PS, Truly wish you all the best in your venture Ed, your a nice guy who deserves a great life and thriving business

[Edbear]

Thanks Ed, your right as usual....Its not an easy issue to sort out.
And Yes, Most of the products now days have a connection to china (drives my betterhalf NUTS when she takes me shopping lol).
Guess Im just one of those moral driven dreamers, who wants to see everyone paid fairly, teated as equals and enjoying a clean green world...sigh

But as a great man once said

"We must become the change we want to see"

......Mahatma Gandhi
....smart guy

Respectfully

WillyTheeKid

PS, Truly wish you all the best in your venture Ed, your a nice guy who deserves a great life and thriving business

Can't argue with this, mate! We'd love to see fairness and justice, but we can only do what we can for those around us, I guess. It's like paying our taxes, we pay, the Government apportions it out as they see fit, we can't choose what we want to see our personal taxes go towards. Okay it's not quite the same, but as individuals we don't influence the way the majority function. For more and more products, it's a case of either do without or accept its origins.

I just bought thermals for the first time in about 30years, (gettin' older..), from Kathmandu. Guess where they're made?

[Headbanger]

regardless of brand an more and more components are China sourced even for the likes of Harley.

Harley Davidson being the odd one out, In that quality increased 8000% when production was moved to China.

That aside, Ed, but I wouldn't touch any of the products you pictured, My herpes is getting irritated just by looking at em, and that's never a good sign.

Not a good feeling either.

[Edbear]

Harley Davidson being the odd one out, In that quality increased 8000% when production was moved to China.

That aside, Ed, but I wouldn't touch any of the products you pictured, My herpes is getting irritated just by looking at em, and that's never a good sign.

Not a good feeling either.

LOL! Brings back bad memories? After everything that has gone on with Chinese imports I was very skeptical, esp. after a company like Sulco got badly burnt. I raised this issue with my contact there and all he could do was reassure me of their ability to meet EEC qualifications and the length of time they have been in business along with the usual facts of the different countries they export to.

So as I say, I can't criticise anyone for being anti-Chinese imports, but maybe as I am only targetting specific products for a specific market and wil only continue if I am satisfied with thequality and service, it may be worth exploring.

I'm doing some market research to see how much interest I might get in my target market.

[Katman]

There's a big difference between overseas companies who move their manufacturing to China and Chinese manufacturing companies.

One makes products to a strict quality control governed by the overseas head office and the other has no quality control.

[Edbear]

There's a big difference between overseas companies who move their manufacturing to China and Chinese manufacturing companies.

One makes products to a strict quality control governed by the overseas head office and the other has no quality control.

True, of course. The prospect is that as more Chinese companies export and realise they need to up their quality for a more discerning market, plus the sheer number of manufacturers competing for the market share, they will respond accordingly. This would lead to some local manufacturers going under as they lose to the better quality and better organised companies. Cheaply made products flooding into a low economic and proliferate market, ie: domestic China, won't work in the Western world. This will force better quality, better factories, higher standards and wages and therefore higher prices.

I watched a documentary on Audi's Chinese plants and it was very interesting. Everything was state of the art and quality control second to none. Then I watched recently a doco on local Chinese manufacturing and really it was a joke!

[Katman]

The prospect is that as more Chinese companies export and realise they need to up their quality for a more discerning market, plus the sheer number of manufacturers competing for the market share, they will respond accordingly.

And the quickest way to make them improve their product is to refuse to buy their shit.

[Indiana_Jones]

And the quickest way to make them improve their product is to refuse to buy their shit.

+1

As well as your earlier post, which summed up my waffling one

-Indy

[Swoop]

I'm still actively checking any purchases for "made in china" on it.
Especially at the supermarket!

[avgas]

I don't support SLAVERY!

Sure you do.
You just typed this comment on a computer that has slavery components.

Turns out you know nothing, or you support slavery.

Take your pick.

[willytheekid]

Sure you do.
You just typed this comment on a computer that has slavery components.

Turns out you know nothing, or you support slavery.

Take your pick.

havin some fun mashin da keyboard thingy today avgas?