Enjoying the Carbon Scam?

[Quasievil]

You missed the point of our ETS!!!!
It not about cutting emissions if it was we would have the $2500 bulshit version the darkgreens and pinkos were advocating just before they were tipped out.
We sell shit to countries who are insane with eco this and save the planet that so we have to be seen to be doing what is right by their standards. All it would take is for a competitor of a NZ product to point the bony finger and say our products are to carbon expensive and we would be rogered up our exhaust pipes. To our customers it would be socially irresponsible to support destroying the planet.


As the world motto goes...

Keeping it green keeps the customers keen even if an ETS is a financial kick in the spleen.
(I do wonder though just how big bike mufflers can get before its ridiculous)

Repeat that 1000 times every hour while facing magnetic north until you loose any trace of independent thought.

That is the best challenging post yet in this entire thread, nice, let one think that over a bit.

[Deano]

ISO14001 is a sufficient and appropriate standard for reducing pollution, and some foreign companies also use it as a criteria for buying our products. No certification, no buy.

Why doesn't the govt make certification under ISO14001 mandatory, particluarly for large companies ?

There's no good/bad science to worry about. Still compliance costs which would be passed to the consumer, but at least the results are measurable and tangible.

[Banditbandit]

We sell shit to countries who are insane with eco this and save the planet that so we have to be seen to be doing what is right by their standards. All it would take is for a competitor of a NZ product to point the bony finger and say our products are to carbon expensive and we would be rogered up our exhaust pipes. To our customers it would be socially irresponsible to support destroying the planet.

This is true. Some countries are already counting the carbon credits to ship our goods to market - by far the highest inthe world when we ship to Europe ... by sea or by air.

Maybe we should be looking at reducing the carbon outputs of shippping - we need it more than anyone. If we developed some wind-powered ships we could create a boat building industry and have plenty of jobs ... we already lead the world in racing sail power why not bulk shipping sail power?

ISO14001 is a sufficient and appropriate standard for reducing pollution, and some foreign companies also use it as a criteria for buying our products. No certification, no buy.

Why doesn't the govt make certification under ISO14001 mandatory, particluarly for large companies ?

And the business community i.e. National's buddies, would scream about Government interference in business.

[Quasievil]

You missed the point of our ETS!!!!
It not about cutting emissions if it was we would have the $2500 bulshit version the darkgreens and pinkos were advocating just before they were tipped out.
We sell shit to countries who are insane with eco this and save the planet that so we have to be seen to be doing what is right by their standards. All it would take is for a competitor of a NZ product to point the bony finger and say our products are to carbon expensive and we would be rogered up our exhaust pipes. To our customers it would be socially irresponsible to support destroying the planet.


As the world motto goes...

Keeping it green keeps the customers keen even if an ETS is a financial kick in the spleen.
(I do wonder though just how big bike mufflers can get before its ridiculous)

Repeat that 1000 times every hour while facing magnetic north until you loose any trace of independent thought.

Thanks Spearfish for that challenging post, I thought about it a bit ad have come to the thinking that this argument, and now situation, on world market competitiveness is a valid one, however this more so is a testimony as to the depth that this crazyness has gone and (I know Im using this word alot but to say it again in the descriptive sense) the "scam" has enabled this scenario to now become a reality of commerce.
It is a reality and youre correct I believe, but as I say this reality is a by product we suffer under this scam.

thats my thoughts on it

[Spearfish]

Thanks Spearfish for that challenging post, I thought about it a bit ad have come to the thinking that this argument, and now situation, on world market competitiveness is a valid one, however this more so is a testimony as to the depth that this crazyness has gone and (I know Im using this word alot but to say it again in the descriptive sense) the "scam" has enabled this scenario to now become a reality of commerce.
It is a reality and youre correct I believe, but as I say this reality is a by product we suffer under this scam.

thats my thoughts on it

Your not wrong, that's why is easier just to repeat the mantra until your spleen stops hurting.

Your thinking way to much.

[Banditbandit]

the "scam" has enabled this scenario to now become a reality of commerce.

So let's see it as an opportunity - if the world has been scammed into accepting climate change and is demanding actiion let's create a boat building industry based on wind power. Plenty of jobs and massive opportunities for a huge income for this country ...

Capitalism at its best - reap huge rewards from a scam .. Damm ... if I was rich I would invest ..

[ducatilover]

So let's see it as an opportunity - if the world has been scammed into accepting climate change and is demanding actiion let's create a boat building industry based on wind power. Plenty of jobs and massive opportunities for a huge income for this country ...

Capitalism at its best - reap huge rewards from a scam .. Damm ... if I was rich I would invest ..

That's actually an interesting idea.
But how would they tax us for carbon emissions? I'm sure there will be a way to fuck that idea over

[Banditbandit]

That's actually an interesting idea.
But how would they tax us for carbon emissions? I'm sure there will be a way to fuck that idea over

Naaa .. see by reducing the carbon fuel based shipping out of Godzone we'd be earning carbon credits which we could then sell overseas .. making a profit from selling the wind-powered ship AND from selling carbon credits ...

And there would be a reduction in carbon production as well .. a win-win all round .. isn't capitalism wonderful

[avgas]

Lower Hutt city Council do a similar thing with gas from the Silverstream landfill. That gas is burned to generate electricity.
However according to Wiki burning methane produces heat, water and CO2
"CH4(g) + 2 O2(g) → CO2(g) + 2 H2O(l) (ΔH = −891 kJ/mol (at standard conditions))
where bracketed "g" stands for gaseous form and bracketed "l" stands for liquid form."
Do the councils then tax themselves for their emissions?

Yes they will have to register to pay tax on their emissions.
The fact that they use rubbish methane does not mean they escape the tax. Just that they have a free supply of fuel for it.
However if they don't register for emissions credits........mums the word.

Starting to see the holes in this scheme yet?

[avgas]

Yes reduction of energy use is a good thing

Raises a good point. How come we are not taxing consumption?
Taxing emissions is like taxing the poor harder than the rich.
Makes no sense.

No wonder India and China are out.

[Spearfish]

Naaa .. see by reducing the carbon fuel based shipping out of Godzone we'd be earning carbon credits which we could then sell overseas .. making a profit from selling the wind-powered ship AND from selling carbon credits ...

And there would be a reduction in carbon production as well .. a win-win all round .. isn't capitalism wonderful

I wish the ETS would stop my neighbour tipping engine oil along the back of his/our fence.

No weeds though.

[oneofsix]

I wish the ETS would stop my neighbour tipping engine oil along the back of his/our fence.

No weeds though.

You should fully support and encourage your neighbour. They are returning the oil to the ground and isn't adding to the carbon emissions by causing it to be shipped back to the refinery.

[ducatilover]

Naaa .. see by reducing the carbon fuel based shipping out of Godzone we'd be earning carbon credits which we could then sell overseas .. making a profit from selling the wind-powered ship AND from selling carbon credits ...

And there would be a reduction in carbon production as well .. a win-win all round .. isn't capitalism wonderful

Don't be so bloody positive. We'll have to pay Waterway User Charges and there will be toll booths for boats.

I like your idea though

[avgas]

I wish the ETS would stop my neighbour tipping engine oil along the back of his/our fence.

No weeds though.

Next time he tries it - flick him a light.

[oneofsix]

Next time he tries it - flick him a light.

that will release those nasty carbon creatures.