Why electric vehicles aren't the answer

[tigertim20]

I’ve Been pondering this electric vehicle thing and looking at ‘refuelling’ which with vehicles currently on the market can take up to 13 hours, but even speed charging stations will take around 30 minutes, so how does that work (if electric vehicles become thenorm) when we are travelling around, and need to top up? If its going to take that long, you’ll never be able to get everyone charged up, congestion will become an issue due to those waiting for a charge.

Additionally, consider the impact on national power grids, most of you will recall times when New Zealand has had power shortages, you’ll remember the advertisements on the television about save power between 8 & 9PM every night, and the national attempts to reduce power consumption by 10 percent because we were at risk of overloading our national grid, well, how the fuck is the grid going to hold up with every man and his dog charging the electric car in the garage overnight? NZ isn’t the only country that has suffered from this problem, The USA has regularly had to endure rolling blackouts during, for example, heat waves, when everyone is using the air con in their homes, and the grid simply cannot cope, I’m sure the same issue exists worldwide to a degree. The grid will overload as it is, but add to that the added stresses of everyone trying to speed charge their vehicle if a 30 minute speed-charge (like is currently available in some areas) becomes readily available in your home, because let’s face it, you can’t go 13 hours between using your vehicle every day can you?
Even if we manage to upgrade the grid to cope with this demand, you run into yet another problem, not only is oil shortage a becoming issue, bit being environmentally friendly is also a major contributing factor to the electric car. Look at how NZ harnesses its power, Wellington is powered by wind, but you can’t create an excess wind to generate the shortfall no matter how good last nights’ vindaloo was. What about the areas that are Hydro powered, there are already hippy-types opposing the creation of further hydro projects, such as the on-going argument around the Wairau river in Marlborough, and the effect on the immediate geography surrounding the sites of hydro dams.
Fucked if we do and fucked if we don’t?
So, assuming some smart cookie doesn’t come up with a cheap and effective way of separating water and extracting the hydrogen in a cost effective manner any time soon, whats the answer?

Thoughts?

[craisin]

well if the base of fuel of the future has to be water let it be sea water to combat the rising sea levels they talk about

[TimeOut]

Charge them at night, when there's excess capacity and generation.
It's only going to get worse with more wind generation, if the wind blows at night that power has to be used, the same with a certain percentage of hydro.

Electric won't suit everybody but for those who do shorter trips from home and can charge on cheap power at night it'll be ideal, when the inital cost comes down.

[Wannabiker]

Use powerbands....

[Deano]

Use powerbands....

Close !!

Treadmills/cycles at fill up stations. You want to fill up your car, start peddling. Less load on the grid. (Probably feck all ?)

Treadmills in the workplace - you could power your computer etc yourself while you work.

It would go a long way to solving the obesity issue also.

[marty]

I don't know why we can't use solar and hydro energy to crack H2O, store it in tanks like LPG and just use it as a normal fuel. i saw on TV a private owned hydro plant in the south island, ultilising old hydro canals. electricity is not the whole answer, but it is part of it.

[YellowDog]

You'll just have 'Power Cell' swap stations. You know, like with your gas bottles.

$10 a refil will probably be more profitable than selling a tank load of fuel

[JimO]

latest top gear does a bit on electric cars, your better off with a diesel vw golf

[Berries]

Treadmills/cycles at fill up stations. You want to fill up your car, start peddling. Less load on the grid.

How about pedals in the car?

[racefactory]

The answer will be nuclear fission, not electric I think.

Whatever it is, I'm looking forward to it. I purchased my current bike with the expectation that it will be my last petrol vehicle and I'll keep it until the time not too far from now where petrol prices will render our vehicles not economically viable for transportation and leisure use. I suspect at most we've got about 10 years left. Someone needs to invent something quick!

[Usarka]

Electric cars were popular in New York about one century ago.

We're dealing with a 100 year old problem that man hasn't been cracked, but in the interim we've landed on the moon, split atoms, genetically engineered food and animals, cured diseases etc.

Must be a tricky one.

[avgas]

Electric cars were popular in New York about one century ago.

Yep. Back then electric cars out numbered petrol ones.

I could comment more in this thread. But I am curious as to what the common man think about electric automobiles.

[bogan]

You're looking at it a bit wrong, the question is not 'Are electric vehicles better than petrol ones?', it is 'What is the best alternative?' Because the dinsosaur juice is running out, we need to get a head start on the alternatives and build up the technology/production/infrastructure now, so we don't go back to the stone age when petrol etc runs out. Starting now means we also get longer until the fuel does run out, and can leave it for more important applications, like motor-sport, and flight.

If we go renewable like hydrogen or batteries, the power generation infrastructure must be upgraded anyway. Hydrogen is quicker to recharge, but currently not as efficient I believe, and costly to store. Long distance vehicles may end up with a hydrogen fuel cells to provide on demand power, while still utilising their batteries for everyday short trips, or as yellowdog said use standard format batteries and swap them out.

[Headbanger]

Horses,bicycles, and trains.

Lets rip up the roads and plant grass.

[Matt Bleck]

I’ve Been pondering this electric vehicle thing and looking at ‘refuelling’ which with vehicles currently on the market can take up to 13 hours, but even speed charging stations will take around 30 minutes, so how does that work (if electric vehicles become thenorm) when we are travelling around, and need to top up? If its going to take that long, you’ll never be able to get everyone charged up, congestion will become an issue due to those waiting for a charge.

Additionally, consider the impact on national power grids, most of you will recall times when New Zealand has had power shortages, you’ll remember the advertisements on the television about save power between 8 & 9PM every night, and the national attempts to reduce power consumption by 10 percent because we were at risk of overloading our national grid, well, how the fuck is the grid going to hold up with every man and his dog charging the electric car in the garage overnight? NZ isn’t the only country that has suffered from this problem, The USA has regularly had to endure rolling blackouts during, for example, heat waves, when everyone is using the air con in their homes, and the grid simply cannot cope, I’m sure the same issue exists worldwide to a degree. The grid will overload as it is, but add to that the added stresses of everyone trying to speed charge their vehicle if a 30 minute speed-charge (like is currently available in some areas) becomes readily available in your home, because let’s face it, you can’t go 13 hours between using your vehicle every day can you?
Even if we manage to upgrade the grid to cope with this demand, you run into yet another problem, not only is oil shortage a becoming issue, bit being environmentally friendly is also a major contributing factor to the electric car. Look at how NZ harnesses its power, Wellington is powered by wind, but you can’t create an excess wind to generate the shortfall no matter how good last nights’ vindaloo was. What about the areas that are Hydro powered, there are already hippy-types opposing the creation of further hydro projects, such as the on-going argument around the Wairau river in Marlborough, and the effect on the immediate geography surrounding the sites of hydro dams.
Fucked if we do and fucked if we don’t?
So, assuming some smart cookie doesn’t come up with a cheap and effective way of separating water and extracting the hydrogen in a cost effective manner any time soon, whats the answer?

Thoughts?

as mentioned, battery swap's for your refueling question.

and as for strain on the power grid, how about if every roof top in NZ had a percentage of it's area covered in solar panels, and they are all wired into the national grid? Surley that'd work?