Who will win the 2011 election?

[oldrider]

A pretty good point. I voted Labour in 84 and thought I was voting for a party that supported the working man (I was on the tools back then). The next few years, like a lot of people, I got swept up in 80s wank and traded my overalls for shiny suits, pink shirts and grey shoes and I thought Douglas et al were the messiah come again. Then I lost everything I owned and found myself driving a truck for minimum wage and I realised that the Labour party were neither the party of the working man nor the high flying suit. I think that's been Labour's problem ever since - they're not the party of the working man any more.

That's partly because the working man doesn't really exist any more the way he used to. The old school socialists used to be able to convince the working man that the bosses were his enemy and bleeding him dry by sitting on their arses profitting from his labour. The unions were his ally and the Labour party were his party, so when Wayne with the grouse Kingswood held forth at the pub with his jug in front of him, it was National, the bosses and the banks that were the enemy.

Over the last couple of decades it has all changed, especially since the property boom. Wayne found that his $120,000 house was worth $300,000 and he listened to the real estate agent and bought some investment properties and became a millionaire. He bought a better ute and became a businessman and now he has new enemies that suck his lifeblood presented to him by the National/Act spin doctors - lazy career beneficiaries earning $1000 a week and useless bureaucrats in Wellington making his life a misery, and both being paid by him from his taxes. Now he holds forth with his bottle of Stella in front of him and it's Labour, the unions, beneficiaries, bureaucrats and climate change he is against.

I wonder what next for our hero?

Well, that just about sums it up! (a few biased sidetracks but close enough) Hey, I heard it's Wayne's shout, catch you later!

[mashman]

Your reference to "sheep" is not only quite childish and irritating, it spoils what are relatively balanced and thoughful posts.

Too close to the bone eh?

You're only impressing idiots like Mashman, you know.

You're correct though. I am an idiot, although coming from a (b)elitist (snigger rofl chortle snort) such as yourself, the slur carries absolutely no weight

I am impressed with most of shrub's posts (as well as others here). If I could, I'd have his babies. It's great to see those with knowledge and a brain apply it for a purpose that doesn't involve taking advantage of those of us in the cheap seats. You highlight this with monotonous regularity and all I can offer you is my sympathy for your obvious insecurities and the need to resort to childish jibes to make yourself feel better.

I, as have many idiotic generations before me, have put my trust in those who are "trained" to do a job. In this case, it's to ensure that those around me (the whole country) are looked after in one fashion or another. Unfortunately those cut from the same cloth as yourself have decided to abuse that trust and have taken up the positions of power and "responsibility" for their own gain, and regularly shaft people... and all because they can. No other reason. Certainly not for the benefit of the country, otherwise it'd be running smoothly and idiots like myself wouldn't need to be concerned about the direction that you and the other (b)elitists are taking it.

Unfortunately you, and your ilk are stupid and ignorant. You rely on your command of language, superior knowledge and intellect to "rort" the systems and dismiss any person that does not meet with your high standards. I find it amusing, because you, and your ilk, do nothing but maintain a status quo, a facade that even a 7 year old can't reconcile as a logical way for humanity to move forwards (fortunately they are a minority and will eventually toe the line)... and when you and your ilk are caught being 's, you drag out the old fall backs of Tall Poppy, Human Nature etc...

The status quo isn't working and you and your ilk are the problem, not me and my ilk. You take advantage because you are in positions to do so, and then you moan and bleat (coz you iz a sheep) that it's everyone elses fault that the country is in the state that it is. You and your ilk are the ones with the power to address this, or are you also blind as well as deaf and dumb?. Yet you, and your ilk, do nothing but point the finger at others. Up yer game!

To that end, you and your ilk are just another bunch of useless old cunts and indeed are the true idiots of the world. Have a nice day's herding.

[Oscar]

Too close to the bone eh?



You're correct though. I am an idiot, although coming from a (b)elitist (snigger rofl chortle snort) such as yourself, the slur carries absolutely no weight

I am impressed with most of shrub's posts (as well as others here). If I could, I'd have his babies. It's great to see those with knowledge and a brain apply it for a purpose that doesn't involve taking advantage of those of us in the cheap seats. You highlight this with monotonous regularity and all I can offer you is my sympathy for your obvious insecurities and the need to resort to childish jibes to make yourself feel better.

I, as have many idiotic generations before me, have put my trust in those who are "trained" to do a job. In this case, it's to ensure that those around me (the whole country) are looked after in one fashion or another. Unfortunately those cut from the same cloth as yourself have decided to abuse that trust and have taken up the positions of power and "responsibility" for their own gain, and regularly shaft people... and all because they can. No other reason. Certainly not for the benefit of the country, otherwise it'd be running smoothly and idiots like myself wouldn't need to be concerned about the direction that you and the other (b)elitists are taking it.

Unfortunately you, and your ilk are stupid and ignorant. You rely on your command of language, superior knowledge and intellect to "rort" the systems and dismiss any person that does not meet with your high standards. I find it amusing, because you, and your ilk, do nothing but maintain a status quo, a facade that even a 7 year old can't reconcile as a logical way for humanity to move forwards (fortunately they are a minority and will eventually toe the line)... and when you and your ilk are caught being 's, you drag out the old fall backs of Tall Poppy, Human Nature etc...

The status quo isn't working and you and your ilk are the problem, not me and my ilk. You take advantage because you are in positions to do so, and then you moan and bleat (coz you iz a sheep) that it's everyone elses fault that the country is in the state that it is. You and your ilk are the ones with the power to address this, or are you also blind as well as deaf and dumb?. Yet you, and your ilk, do nothing but point the finger at others. Up yer game!

To that end, you and your ilk are just another bunch of useless old cunts and indeed are the true idiots of the world. Have a nice day's herding.

I love that - the slur carries no weight, and yet you then launch into the longest post I've seen you write. I'm sorry if you take offense at my "childish jibes", but that seemed to be your preferred method of communication. As for stupid, everytime an ecomonic discussion is started, you crap on about an alternative system, and when asked to explain it, you refuse, because "..it's obvious.."

My ilk? You don't know me, you nothing about my situation, life or job - yet you assume that you do. How stupid is that?

If you'd like to up your game, perhaps we could have a reasoned debate.

[Oscar]

Actually I probably do know more than half the electorate - or at least I would hope I would given the huge amount of work I have put into gaining an education in political science, media and business. I know these days education is seen as being a bad thing, but I don't know a better way to gain specialist knowledge than through reading, researching, analysing and being taught by experts. There certainly isn't an easier way that actualy produces results or I would have used it.

And as I said before, can you think of a better way of describing the behaviour I'm talking about?

I'm sure you do know more than half the electorate, you seem to be an educated person. Perhaps that's why I was a little disappointed at the use of the word sheep, although I may have assumed that you were only describing right wing voters. Were you describing the whole population?

Anyway I think I'll stick to "human nature" as my description. Whereas the electorate does exhibit a certain mob behaviour similar to the woolly beasts, this does suggest that somewhere there's a farmer with a whistle and two dogs. As I said before, I just don't think that there's anyone smart enough or organised enough (certainly not the National Party or the Labour Party) to run a scam like that.

[mashman]

I love that - the slur carries no weight, and yet you then launch into the longest post I've seen you write. I'm sorry if you take offense at my "childish jibes", but that seemed to be your preferred method of communication. As for stupid, everytime an ecomonic discussion is started, you crap on about an alternative system, and when asked to explain it, you refuse, because "..it's obvious.."

My ilk? You don't know me, you nothing about my situation, life or job - yet you assume that you do. How stupid is that?

If you'd like to up your game, perhaps we could have a reasoned debate.

No offense taken... I answer every question asked about "my" alternative...

Pot kettle black much.

Impossible. Primarily because I don't have the knowledge level that YOU require, fo me to be allowed to take part in such a debate, and secondly you refuse to correct me with any knowledge that backs up your point of view, because "it's obvious". Hence thickos like me require the likes of yourself (and politicians) to up your game and use your obvious "talents" for the benefit of the whole country. Until then, you're about as useful, to me, as a forex trader.

[shrub]

I'm sure you do know more than half the electorate, you seem to be an educated person. Perhaps that's why I was a little disappointed at the use of the word sheep, although I may have assumed that you were only describing right wing voters. Were you describing the whole population?

Anyway I think I'll stick to "human nature" as my description. Whereas the electorate does exhibit a certain mob behaviour similar to the woolly beasts, this does suggest that somewhere there's a farmer with a whistle and two dogs. As I said before, I just don't think that there's anyone smart enough or organised enough (certainly not the National Party or the Labour Party) to run a scam like that.

Mate, I believe that there is no such thing as left or right wing any more, and the people who display the behaviour I'm talking about will follow whoever has the message they like and presents that message in a way they can relate to. At the moment they like the message give by honest John; state house boy made good, a master of economics and self made millionaire yet an ordinary man with the common touch who would be good company down at the pub. Probably even has a grouse ute. He could pretty much say or do anything right now, and he'd still give people a warm feeling.

[Oscar]

No offense taken... I answer every question asked about "my" alternative...

Pot kettle black much.

Impossible. Primarily because I don't have the knowledge level that YOU require, fo me to be allowed to take part in such a debate, and secondly you refuse to correct me with any knowledge that backs up your point of view, because "it's obvious". Hence thickos like me require the likes of yourself (and politicians) to up your game and use your obvious "talents" for the benefit of the whole country. Until then, you're about as useful, to me, as a forex trader.

I've asked you on several occasions about you alternative system and been told each time that you'd already been into it or somesuch. You have never answered directly.

Where have I ever answered that "it's obvious"????
If you hang around here making stupid comments like:

praps he'll get a Nobel Prize like his buddy Obama... albeit it for economics

I'm gonna reply in kind, but I certainly never ducked any questions.
As for the rest, I'm not a politician, I don't belong to a political party and I don't stand for anything except my family. I had my crack at changing the world (and a bunch of people tried to thank me cracking my skull) and I'm moderatley happy with the result.

So if you truly consider yourself a "thicko", and are waiting for someone else to come along and fix the system - you will probably be rewarded with all the effort that you obviously are prepared to expend.

[Oscar]

Mate, I believe that there is no such thing as left or right wing any more, and the people who display the behaviour I'm talking about will follow whoever has the message they like and presents that message in a way they can relate to. At the moment they like the message give by honest John; state house boy made good, a master of economics and self made millionaire yet an ordinary man with the common touch who would be good company down at the pub. Probably even has a grouse ute. He could pretty much say or do anything right now, and he'd still give people a warm feeling.

As much as I agree with that, you're in a Catch 22 situation.
By catergorising the public image as appealing to sheep, you're as guilty as the National Party in playing the man, not the issues.

[oneofsix]

Mate, I believe that there is no such thing as left or right wing any more, and the people who display the behaviour I'm talking about will follow whoever has the message they like and presents that message in a way they can relate to. At the moment they like the message give by honest John; state house boy made good, a master of economics and self made millionaire yet an ordinary man with the common touch who would be good company down at the pub. Probably even has a grouse ute. He could pretty much say or do anything right now, and he'd still give people a warm feeling.

As much as it upsets me I have to agree. Can't wait for those people to realise that the warm feeling is Honest John pissing on them but by then he will have stolen the family silver, smiling all the while.

[Oscar]

As much as it upsets me I have to agree. Can't wait for those people to realise that the warm feeling is Honest John pissing on them but by then he will have stolen the family silver, smiling all the while.

Family silver?
Isn't this a bit hackneyed, considering that both major parties have been open with the Govt. accounts for quite some time now? Hanging on to some of these assets (Air NZ for example) is akin to me having an Aston Martin on HP whilst failing to make mortgage payments.

Notwithstanding that, they're keeping a controlling interest.

And stolen? This isn't 1984, 1987 or 1991 where parties promised one thing and did another(because of "economic contingencies"). The Govt. is allowing the voters the chance to have their say.

[mashman]

I've asked you on several occasions about you alternative system and been told each time that you'd already been into it or somesuch. You have never answered directly.

Where have I ever answered that "it's obvious"????
If you hang around here making stupid comments like:

I have answered you every time to my knowledge... I'm not that impolite... and the flippent remark was meant as such... but it wouldn't surprise me if Key was honoured, something I don't believe he deserves.

I'm gonna reply in kind, but I certainly never ducked any questions.
As for the rest, I'm not a politician, I don't belong to a political party and I don't stand for anything except my family. I had my crack at changing the world (and a bunch of people tried to thank me cracking my skull) and I'm moderatley happy with the result.

So if you truly consider yourself a "thicko", and are waiting for someone else to come along and fix the system - you will probably be rewarded with all the effort that you obviously are prepared to expend.

I'd be interested to hear about what you did? (no sarcasm etc... genuine interest). I'm not trying to change the world, but I don't accept that this is the best humanity can do.

To that end, I am not equipped with the knowledge to play in the "arena" necessary to implement "my" economy. I do not have the finances to play there either and will not put my family through the ridicule that they would receive from my "extreme" views/actions.

I have been resigned to those facts for years... and will just have to wait until my family grows up before I can come out to play. Perhaps I will have grown up by then too.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah, but he thinks he knows better, when it's actually me that knows better...

Yeah .. old people always think they are right too

[oldrider]

Yeah .. old people always think they are right too

Hey .... I resemble that remark!

[Oscar]

I'd be interested to hear about what you did? (no sarcasm etc... genuine interest). I'm not trying to change the world, but I don't accept that this is the best humanity can do.

I was a student activist.
When the Nats kicked off their 1981 Election Campaign at the Founders Theatre, I was there with a banner that said "Muldoon Eats Babies" Me and my friend Dave stole a blue and white straw boater off the head of a Cabinet Minister as he was electioneering at a local fair (a laugh then, but you'd probably get shot by the DPS now).

Something that you'll probably find richly ironic is that in that election we supported a local lady on the basis that she was the best candidate...and her party?

Social Credit
How embarrassing....

I was a 1981 Springbok Tour protester.
We saw what happened in Hamilton and were at Eden Park for the last test.
Apart from that second when you know yer going to crash yer bike, I've never been that scared...

[puddytat]

At the risk of "appearing" to be stoopid for using emoticons for example....
this continual election cycle of Nats & Labs spouting dogma when they're both schisms of the same church,just fucks us around for another 3 years of the same with very little done to start solving the real issues facing us, whist they fondle our pockets & ego with simplistic knee jerk solutions to only the simple problems.
How much longer NZ? .Our reticince as a nation dumbfounds me....
You know what? I think the biggest problem is that we're as emotive as a dead parrot.
Do you know what? I think that what has been missing for far to fucking long is some EMOTION!!
Where are the politicians who show any of the most basic instinct of our species?
And before you say "No, emotions not allowed", well I think that is exactly the problem.
Some off the worlds greatest (& worst) leaders are reknown for their emotive rhetoric

Being all about dollars & scents doesnt seem to be solving anything to me.
When people get fucked off, its not cold reasoning, its emotion.
Why are the fucked off?Usually because they are offended by something that bothers thier Morals & Ethics.
Thats why brave fuckers standing in the middle of a Rugby ground changed things..
Why Woman got the vote
Why 40 thousand people marched about mining in Parks
Why the Yanks got egg in thier face & on their ships
Why Blacks got equality
Why we got a 40hr week
Why a Dome got deflated
Why we see the strengthening of the left in Sth America & Europe
Its not the politicians that get things done, ITS THE PEOPLE.
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE ARE NOTHING.