Who will win the 2011 election?

[Oscar]

Too socialist (if so what aspects)? not enough exposure? noone likes to back a loser?

Too wierd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. Social credit Were never socialist ... just used C.H Douglas' economic theories ... which just might have worked - but were generally regarded as "weird" ..

[Oscar]

Yeah .. Social credit Were never socialist ... just used C.H Douglas' economic theories ... which just might have worked - but were generally regarded as "weird" ..

Wierd, even....

[oldrider]

There was a choice, continue with "Social debt" (wars booms or busts) or progress with "Social credit"! (balanced production against consumption, interest free new money)

The electorate (foolishly) chose "Social debt" and look at the mess we are in with compounding intrest "debt" on new money!

So which one represents funny money now?

[mashman]

Too wierd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit

heh, as you may have guessed I don't fine anything truly wierd about it really... other than it didn't take that extra step and ignore "finance" entirely. I guess the idea behind a controlled financial economy was realistic back in the 20's... then again, he did seem to note the dangers of money as a basis for value... these days though, naaaaaaaaaah, we need to go all the way or continue to suffer the consequences of a much more sophisticated version of the economic sabotage he was concerned with.

[puddytat]

Too wierd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit

Good read that, & goes a way to explain why the polled at around 28% back in the 80's?.....why have they fallen from grace?
Oh I know....greed plain & simple.
Amazing really, that back in the day NZers voted in those numbers in a FPP system,whereas now all the minor parties would struggle to make more than 15% of the vote.
Probably people were more idealistic back then & not so capatalistic as now & as paranoid about the left....
The weirdest thing is at the time of writing this, that on TVNZ7 news at 8 there was a report on plans to bring in a similar system to help protect the financial system in England from the Banks

[SPman]

Wierd, even....

Many thought it was more..... wyrd!

[mashman]

Good read that, & goes a way to explain why the polled at around 28% back in the 80's?.....why have they fallen from grace?
Oh I know....greed plain & simple.
Amazing really, that back in the day NZers voted in those numbers in a FPP system,whereas now all the minor parties would struggle to make more than 15% of the vote.
Probably people were more idealistic back then & not so capatalistic as now & as paranoid about the left....
The weirdest thing is at the time of writing this, that on TVNZ7 news at 8 there was a report on plans to bring in a similar system to help protect the financial system in England from the Banks

The world took off in a different direction and NZ has been trying to catch up since?

[Banditbandit]

Amazing really, that back in the day NZers voted in those numbers in a FPP system,whereas now all the minor parties would struggle to make more than 15% of the vote.
Probably people were more idealistic back then & not so capatalistic as now & as paranoid about the left....

Under FFP I think there was a large "protest vote" ... i.e. people voting for a minor party because it had no chance of getting in. That's the equivelent of a "no Confidence" vote .. which was not an available option ...

Now people are not "protest voting" in the same way ... because a minor paty MAY get in .. I think people are protest voting by voting for one of the major parties (National or Labour) not because they support the party they vote for, but because they do not want the other party to get into power ... "Vote Labour to keep the Nats out" or vice versa ..

Then there are the people who do actually support the minor party they vote for ...

[oldrider]

Under FFP I think there was a large "protest vote" ... i.e. people voting for a minor party because it had no chance of getting in. That's the equivelent of a "no Confidence" vote .. which was not an available option ...

Now people are not "protest voting" in the same way ... because a minor paty MAY get in .. I think people are protest voting by voting for one of the major parties (National or Labour) not because they support the party they vote for, but because they do not want the other party to get into power ... "Vote Labour to keep the Nats out" or vice versa ..

Then there are the people who do actually support the minor party they vote for ...

True!

I agree but the advent of Social Credit getting 21% of the vote (protest or otherwise) scared hell out of the status quo and Bob Jones New Zealand party was supported by them as an alternative protest to Social Credit!

Why?

Because Social Credit was going to kick arse their rice bowl!

(Meanwhile the financial overlords and their banking system still enjoy their monopoly position and political control.)

Bob Jones NZP was just going to be more of the same! (Social Debt)

Bob Jones verses Rob Muldoon scenario was just a distracting sideshow ... both faded into oblivion not long after.

Social Credit's flurry faded through poor publicity, the involvement of the inevitable crook and finally Bruce Beetham's untimely death!

Unfortunately the champions of "monetary reform" appear to have died with him!

MMP?

Like Henry Ford always said ... you can have any colour you like, so long as it's black!

Meanwhile .... The beat goes on lah di da di dah!

[Oscar]

(Meanwhile the financial overlords and their banking system still enjoy their monopoly position and political control.)

Could you explain this, please?
If NZ has (or had) a monopoly banking system, why would their "financial overlords" open it up to competition?

NZ has one of the most deregulated financial markets in the world (and lucky for us we did, the strenghth of the Australian Banks and the associated Aussie Govt. g'tee brought us through 2008 relatively unscathed). Also if it is really a monopoly, why did the Govt. start it's own bank in direct competition to the "financial overlords"?

Exactly how does anyone exert political control over four Aussie Banks, one British one, one from Hong Kong and a Govt owned bank all at the same time???

[mashman]

Exactly how does anyone exert political control over four Aussie Banks, one British one, one from Hong Kong and a Govt owned bank all at the same time???

Would you accept conditionalities?

[Oscar]

Would you accept conditionalities?

Nope.
If that sort of pressure was being exerted from off-shore how do you explain the creation of Kiwi Bank and the new Heartland outfit? Why would our "financial overlords" accept competition from a Govt. they supposedly control?

[mashman]

Nope.
If that sort of pressure was being exerted from off-shore how do you explain the creation of Kiwi Bank and the new Heartland outfit? Why would our "financial overlords" accept competition from a Govt. they supposedly control?

There's no IF about it... just ask Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Italy etc... why their banks have failed and who is requiring that they put austerity measures in place. The banks perhaps? IMF?

, Kiwi Bank, fear them and kneel before their financial power... otherwise "they" would be an open monopoly, something "they" do not allow in their free market economy... "they" probably underwrite the loans anyway.

[Oscar]

There's no IF about it... just ask Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Italy etc... why their banks have failed and who is requiring that they put austerity measures in place. The banks perhaps? IMF?

, Kiwi Bank, fear them and kneel before their financial power... otherwise "they" would be an open monopoly, something "they" do not allow in their free market economy... "they" probably underwrite the loans anyway.

I fail to see how any of the above proves the "financial overlord" comment.
If there is some overarching international power controlling money markets, they’re ‎doing a piss poor job. ‎

To take Greece as an example, they're in the shit because they spend too much on shit they can't afford. They have some of the most generous Govt. pensions anywhere - for example, as a job with "high physical input", a chef or a hairdresser is allowed to retire at age 55.

If there really was an International Banking conspiracy, the IMF would have stepped in, the Hairdresser woul have to retire at 65, and the banks wouldn't be bleeding shitloads of cash...

As far as I'm aware, smaller banks like Kiwibank securitize their loans and sell them on the open market, hence the commonly used expression about Japanese Housewifes and Belgian Dentists underwiting the NZ housing market.