Ducati making progress?

**Crasherfromwayback** · 21st September 2011, 21:43

Originally Posted by cowpoos

the fact that its made for carbon fibre has nothing to do with their issues...its just internet bullshit!!

I don't actually believe that. For a start...the carbon bits are really short...as would be the alloy bits. But alloy as has been mentioned before has a certain amount of dampening inherantly built into it. CF does not. It 'snaps' back into place more violently.

**cowpoos** · 21st September 2011, 23:38

Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback

I don't actually believe that. For a start...the carbon bits are really short...as would be the alloy bits. But alloy as has been mentioned before has a certain amount of dampening inherantly built into it. CF does not. It 'snaps' back into place more violently.

carbon firbre can have as much flex,damping,etc etc as you want...and far more precisely than metals...you name the physical property, you can build it in to a piece of carbon fibre weaved product....and I'm not kidding....carbon fibre axles on F1 cars are designed to twist 180 degrees...to dampen driveline shock, because of acceleration..the wings are designed to flex a certain way, a pecentage of the way down the wing, to a limited amount of flex..so as not to break any rules!!....the ability to design massive amounts of function into carbon fibre is amazing...seriously!!

as a development tool...its probally the long/slow way...once you have your parameters...mint!!

**cowpoos** · 21st September 2011, 23:41

Originally Posted by cowpoos

carbon firbre can have as much flex,damping,etc etc as you want...and far more precisely than metals...you name the physical property, you can build it in to a piece of carbon fibre weaved product....and I'm not kidding....carbon fibre axles on F1 cars are designed to twist 180 degrees...to dampen driveline shock, because of acceleration..the wings are designed to flex a certain way, a pecentage of the way down the wing, to a limited amount of flex..so as not to break any rules!!....the ability to design massive amounts of function into carbon fibre is amazing...seriously!!

as a development tool...its probally the long/slow way...once you have your parameters...mint!!

and for the record...the snap you talk about would relate to high tensile steels I would imagine...they have very good memory!!

**Brian d marge** · 22nd September 2011, 03:16

Mods can we put all these threads into one place ,,,,,,,

Hysteresis is different , and will have a different feed back to aluminum ,

Anyway , they are testing a twin spar later this week so we shall see

Stephen

**Shaun** · 23rd September 2011, 09:37

Originally Posted by Brian d'marge

Mods can we put all these threads into one place ,,,,,,,

Hysteresis is different , and will have a different feed back to aluminum ,

Anyway , they are testing a twin spar later this week so we shall see

Stephen

exactually Stephen

It is one thing to do research on the internet to understand a product technically, it takes real life experience with it to fully understand how it does react!

**steve_t** · 23rd September 2011, 09:41

Doh, never mind

**DidJit** · 23rd September 2011, 11:06

Down to 1'39" (unofficially) @ Jerez, but there's still (an alleged) 2" gap to Stoner's RC213V. Early days... but the clock is ticking. Gotta say, I find this Ducati development story interesting and exciting (though I'm sure riders, crews, engineers, bosses, sponsors etc could do without the stress.)

**BMWST?** · 26th September 2011, 21:32

Originally Posted by Mental Trousers

Both related questions.

The riders aren't able to interpret the feedback from both the chassis design and the carbon fibre. That's why they don't trust the front end, why they can't turn the thing as they'd like to, why they don't like having it at max lean for any length of time.

The design and material aren't inherently slower, it's just that the riders have been raised on the feel that metal frame designs provide and don't know how to interpret the feedback the monocoque frame and carbon fibre are providing (both individually and together)

.also the reason i beleive that dfferent suspenson systems havent prgressed

**DidJit** · 28th September 2011, 08:31

David Emmett sifts through the lap time rumours...

**Crasherfromwayback** · 28th September 2011, 08:59

Originally Posted by DidJit

David Emmett sifts through the lap time rumours...

Bring on the Thous!!!

**codgyoleracer** · 28th September 2011, 09:39

Originally Posted by Shaun

exactually Stephen

It is one thing to do research on the internet to understand a product technically, it takes real life experience with it to fully understand how it does react!

Shaun, one assumes like me you have been through a number of "experimental projects " over the years - and its one of the great challenges to have a bike thats "easy" to ride a 9.5/tenths. Its incredible how a tiny modification sometimes literally 1-2 lbs of torque on a single bolt at some seemingly random place in the chassis or suspension can either smash apart your feel & feeback/confidence on a machine or totally solve a problem.
So my view on the alloy V carbon, is both materials on paper can possibly mimmick each other , however their individual "natural resonance" seems to be mysterious and unpredicatable when it comes to the infinatly variable forces placed through a motorcycle. Even a different riders style can bring out different traits in a bike, just through their own inputs aye.......
All part of the fun of course !