Don Brash: "We should decriminalise marijuana"

[mashman]

Lots of claims, not interesting in referencing the authority behind those? Your mafia bootlegging claim is hardly even pertinent. Agreed, tighter laws on tobacco and alcohol are needed. The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

Even 1 glass of alcohol can affect your judgement. You can put as much marijuana in a joint as you wish, to obtain whatever affect you require, you can also have a single drag to the point where there is no loss of mental cognition. A line of cocaine doesn't leave the user in a mentally impaired state...

[imdying]

The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

Where do statements like "Cheap date" or "One can man" come from then? Myth?

[Deano]

Lots of claims, not interesting in referencing the authority behind those?

Fair enough call.

The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

Can you provide a reference of authority on that ?

[Clockwork]

I majority of New Zealanders have sped in a motor vehicle too

That is not a reason to decriminalise it.

Ummmmm speeding is not a criminal offense. I have been convicted of speeding. I do not have a criminal record.

....
Alcohol is legal Dope is not .....

Ummmm, isn't that the point of this little debate?




This guy pretty much says it all....

Decriminalising Marijuana does not make it legal. It will still be an offence,but a civil offence not a criminal one.Much like a speeding one,it will be dealt with a ticket,instant fine.This frees up the costly court system and generates revenue. This only applies to very small amounts of marijuana.Growing,selling,and possesing larger amounts would still be a criminal offence and treated the same as it is now. This is what Don Brash is proposing. P and crack cocaine are irrelevant to this discussion. If you have a teenager going through the experimenting stage would you rather have it dealt with a civil fine or a criminal record for life?

Does the harm that marijuana does to society justify the the costs both financial & social, of maintianing the status quo? Especially in light of the known harm/costs of other drugs which are not illegal.

I think not.

[slofox]

Quote from Rosemary McLeod in this morning's paper re Mr Brash...


"If this is what he's like when he's straight...imagine what he'd come up with if he did get stoned!"

[Brett]

Fair enough call.



Can you provide a reference of authority on that ?

Cheeky bastard. No I can't.

[Brett]

Even 1 glass of alcohol can affect your judgement. You can put as much marijuana in a joint as you wish, to obtain whatever affect you require, you can also have a single drag to the point where there is no loss of mental cognition. A line of cocaine doesn't leave the user in a mentally impaired state...

When was the last time someone took a drag on a joint because they liked the taste of the smoke? I would assume 99.9% of pot smokers do so for the effect. I, and many people I know, will have a glass or two of wine or a beer or two with dinner or at the end of the day with no intention of getting wasted (or anything close to it).
You can argue semantics on this all day, yes one *could* take such a small toke as to create no effect, and yes, there are those that will be leg-less after a single drink, but neither of these would constitute the norm.

[scissorhands]

Same old shit, most of these government education links go nowhere, or the educational material is unavailable, or costs like $70 for a 140 page pdf file...

http://www.druginfo.nsw.gov.au/illic...cannabis_links

so, the only education for the young is
unbelievable anti dope from religious or corrupted nut jobs
or pro dope from drug addicted nut jobs

poor kids get dumb shit from both sides....even in a decriminalised environment like Oz

[jazfender]

The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

I agree but they are used in different social contexts. You typically don't have a J with dinner, at least not in (loosely defined) western culture.

Weed isn't a social drug in the same sense as alcohol.

You could also argue that some illegal drugs GAIN mental cognition. But that's another thread.

[scissorhands]

When was the last time someone took a drag on a joint because they liked the taste of the smoke? I would assume 99.9% of pot smokers do so for the effect. I, and many people I know, will have a glass or two of wine or a beer or two with dinner or at the end of the day with no intention of getting wasted (or anything close to it).
You can argue semantics on this all day, yes one *could* take such a small toke as to create no effect, and yes, there are those that will be leg-less after a single drink, but neither of these would constitute the norm.

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

I didnt have cannabis for 3 days, then last night went out and had a small/moderate amount. I will have none again till I socialize with friends in the next few days.

I got friends with government jobs like police and fire service who have a bit at parties, or when they go the beach with mates

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite

[imdying]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

That's not fair, what about a Midori cocktail with dessert? Fruit juice simply doesn't have the same taste.

He's a bit wrong too though... where does it say that you're not allowed to enjoy getting drunk (not meaning pissing yourself drunk either) or getting high? He says people do it specifically to get high, like it's some sort of crime against humanity or something.

[oneofsix]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

I didnt have cannabis for 3 days, then last night went out and had a small/moderate amount. I will have none again till I socialize with friends in the next few days.

I got friends with government jobs like police and fire service who have a bit at parties, or when they go the beach with mates

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite

Nooo don't follow his advice Brett. Obviously he has tried drinking grape juice or he would already know it tastes nothing like wine. Scissors must still be coming down off his high, nope that can't be right as he is too agro for that.

[Scuba_Steve]

Your full of it, buy some grape juice instead of wine then

Stop drinking wine and buy grape juice, unless you like looking like a hypocrite

Your argument falls short here. You must not drink??? but wine & grape juice taste completely different & wine come's in MANY different flavours it's not just "wine".

[scissorhands]

NORML President Phil Saxby has applauded the Auckland Mayoral Forum’s decision not to go ahead with the government’s proposed Party Central venue, arguing that instead of promoting alcohol at “Party Central”, the government should listen to Auckland's many cannabis-smoking rugby fans.

Mr Saxby has written to the Cabinet arguing that cannabis should be regulated in time for the Rugby World Cup in order to decrease alcohol violence during World Cup parties.

"We need to learn from Portugal's experience. They openly permitted cannabis use during the European World Cup and it was a success: there was far less violence. Portugal’s drug laws since 2001 have regulated all drug use through a non-Court process called Commissions of Dissuasion, with greatly improved health results."

Mr Saxby was referring to the Euro 2004 tournament between France and England. Branded as 'hooligans', 50,000 fans - notorious for their drunken antics and ability to instigate all-out riots - descended upon Lisbon. Rather than ban alcohol, the authorities decided instead to sanction cannabis use by English and French fans before the game. The police priority was alcohol. As a result, the match took place without incident, even in the immediate aftermath of England's 2-1 defeat.

"At least 400,000 New Zealanders currently smoke cannabis. It's a part of rugby culture in New Zealand and NORML believes the sanctioning of cannabis use at big sporting events like this is an efficient way to cut down on over-the-top drunken behaviour", Phil Saxby said.

"NORML will be reminding the Cabinet of Portugal’s successful experiment, every time there is an outbreak of alcohol-fuelled violence; whether it be sporting events or New Years gatherings," warns Phil Saxby.

Refer: Guardian story below:

www.guardian.co.uk

It's OK to smoke dope, England fans told

* Paul Kelso in Lisbon
* The Guardian, Friday 11 June 2004 09.42 BST

Portuguese police officers will turn a blind eye to England supporters who openly smoke cannabis during Euro 2004, having decided that a stoned crowd is easier to control than a drunk one.

Lisbon police confirmed yesterday that England fans will not be arrested for puffing on joints on the streets of the Portuguese capital, following a recommendation from the Dutch authorities responsible for policing the English during Euro 2000.

Four years ago England's match in Eindhoven, ironically against Portugal, passed off peacefully as many supporters took advantage of the Netherlands' liberal drugs laws. By contrast the game against Germany in the Belgian town of Charleroi was marred by violence, much of it fuelled by alcohol.

Portugal has similarly relaxed legislation to the Dutch and the authorities hope it will help them police the 50,000 supporters expected to arrive in the country in the next few days.

Possession of small amounts of cannabis is not illegal in Portugal but, technically, consumption is. However, having liaised with the Dutch, police will not act except in extreme circumstances.

Isabel Canelas, a spokeswoman for the Portuguese police, said cannabis would be a low priority during the tournament. "Everyone knows that here everyone can smoke. The police are doing another kind of job and their priorities are different.

"We won't be hiding behind doors waiting for someone to smoke a joint. We have to use common sense. If people are smoking but not kicking each other, not beating each other, and not making a problem, why on earth would an officer go and ask 'Is that cannabis?'

"If you are quietly smoking and a police officer is 10 metres away, what's the big risk in your behaviour? I'm not going to tap you on the shoulder and ask 'What are you smoking?' if you are posing no menace to others. Our priority is alcohol.

"Of course, if people cause a problem through using drugs and become a menace to others, police will be expected to take action. It would be totally different when a police officer realises there's someone trying to sell."

Visitors to Lisbon do not have to try too hard to buy the drug. The city does not have "coffee shops" in the Dutch style, but tourists are likely to be offered cannabis by street vendors.

Organisers have not restricted the amount of alcohol on sale during the tournament despite the Football Association's concerns. Beer costs just 66p a glass and will be freely available around stadiums and at big screen locations.

Eindhoven police spokesman Johann Beelan said cannabis was a positive influence on public order at Euro 2000. "Cannabis ... was part of the conditions which meant everyone had a good time," he said.

British police estimated around 3,000 English supporters had arrived in Portugal by last night, but there have been no reports of disorder and no arrests.

See also:

www.theage.com.au

and www.guardian.co.uk

Letter to Hon Simon Power

Dear Mr Power

Regulate Cannabis in time for Rugby World Cup

First, NORML wishes to record its regret that government Ministers have reacted so negatively to the well-researched and sensible report from the Law Commission on the Misuse of Drugs Act, apparently before even reading it. NORML members expected more from a government that poses as an opponent of the “Nanny State”. We look forward to public debate on improving our drug laws, and will urge a more flexible approach in accordance with the views of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime.

In particular, we call on the government to regulate access to cannabis for personal use in time for the Rugby World Cup in order to decrease alcohol violence during World Cup parties.

We need to learn from Portugal's experience, documented in the attached article. That country openly permitted cannabis use during the 2004 European World Cup and it was a success: there was far less violence as a result.

Please note that Portugal’s drug laws since 2001 have regulated all drug use through a non-Court process called Commissions of Dissuasion, with greatly improved health results.

The Euro-2004 tournament between France and England provides us with a valuable lesson in preparation for the Rugby World Cup. Among the 50,000 fans were many British football 'hooligans' - notorious for their drunken antics and ability to instigate all-out riots – who descended upon Lisbon. Rather than ban alcohol, the authorities decided instead to sanction cannabis use by English and French fans before the game. The police priority was alcohol. As a result, the match took place without incident, even in the immediate aftermath of England's 2-1 defeat.

I attach web references for your further information.

At least 400,000 New Zealanders currently smoke cannabis. It's a part of rugby culture in New Zealand and NORML believes the sanctioning of cannabis use at big sporting events like this is an efficient way to cut down on over-the-top drunken behaviour.

NORML will be reminding the Cabinet of Portugal’s successful experiment, every time there is an outbreak of alcohol-fuelled violence; whether it be sporting events or New Year gatherings.

Kind Regards

Phil Saxby

[oneofsix]

shit must have missed all those stories about World Cup violence. Unless scissors means on the field in which case they are allowed neither alcohol nor cannabis.