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Thread: How to get junior road racers noticed for MotoGP?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by oyster View Post
    The usual myths abound....
    "Find young talent"
    "No resources /money"
    It's all BULLSHIT
    I've been lucky to be at the front line of Junior development now for over 10 years and I can assure anyone that it takes very little effort, resources and money. The model in Canterbury is evidence of this and we've offered the knowledge of this program to MNZ and many clubs around the country countless times.
    That these clubs and and our national leadership shun this advice and pursue other ideas which fail is nothing short of unbelievable.
    I've got my own issues with the way things are run in the NI so I'm in no way biased towards them but lets play devil's advocate here and look at the "evidence" you mentioned: MCC have done some good things, no argument. But after those 10years there are only 2 regular MCC NZSBK Superbike competitors and no Superbike race or title wins by a SI racer in recent memory despite most of the NZSBK rounds being held in the SI. So NZ's highest level of racing is dominated in both numbers and results by NI riders not involved with the MCC system. If someone from the NI was throwing up similar stats to yours as an argument to follow their lead would you be rushing to sign on?

    Sure there are some good numbers in the lower categories but the discussion has been about developing and transitioning young riders to the highest levels, and we aren't seeing them in NZ let alone overseas. So clearly there are some issues, and it's not as simple as you make it out.

    I'm not saying you've got it wrong, far from it, but the MCC model is not the magic bullet, it's just one piece of a jig-saw.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    I've got my own issues with the way things are run in the NI so I'm in no way biased towards them but lets play devil's advocate here and look at the "evidence" you mentioned: MCC have done some good things, no argument. But after those 10years there are only 2 regular MCC NZSBK Superbike competitors and no Superbike race or title wins by a SI racer in recent memory despite most of the NZSBK rounds being held in the SI. So NZ's highest level of racing is dominated in both numbers and results by NI riders not involved with the MCC system. If someone from the NI was throwing up similar stats to yours as an argument to follow their lead would you be rushing to sign on?

    Sure there are some good numbers in the lower categories but the discussion has been about developing and transitioning young riders to the highest levels, and we aren't seeing them in NZ let alone overseas. So clearly there are some issues, and it's not as simple as you make it out.

    I'm not saying you've got it wrong, far from it, but the MCC model is not the magic bullet, it's just one piece of a jig-saw.
    Jake Lewis 125GP champion,Seth Deveruex,Prolite 250 champion,Johnny Small,650 Pro twin Champion,Dennis Charlett,600 Supersport champion and an endless list of top line competitors in the National series is good a enough start for me,600 Superstock won by an englishman with NZ heritage and all of a sudden the North Islanders achievements pale in significance,What does that leave,Superbike won by a 40 something year old,Brilliant,So what is it outside of Jaden Hassan(Who incidentally has had training with MCC as have Glen Skachill,Avalon Biddle and Daniel Mettam) that the North Island scheme has produced???

    Time will show the likes of the 3 Hoogie brothers,Cam Jones,Nick Cain,Eric Oliver Maxwell,Ants Singer and many more from the MCC stable have the ability too step up.

    The point is though,Would they waste their time and especially money,Winning a NZ superbike Championship that means NOTHING in the grand scheme of getting to Moto GP and thats what this thread is about isnt it? Unless Suzuki NZ pick up the tab currently offered to Andrew,Craig and co while theyre in their early teens,It will be a waste of time and money,At 21 your considered too old to be starting in the Superbike/Moto GP classes in Europe.

    So I guess the question you have too ask yourself is,Do we want to make our domestic championship better at Superbike level,Or concentrate on getting the talent on the world stage as early as possible???

    No,What MCC are doing is not the magic bullet,BUT its alot more effective than the proverbial foot shooting expedition on the North Island!!!

  3. #48
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    I couldnt care less if I won every other Championship in New Zealand. The only one that really counts to me is the Superbike

  4. #49
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    There is no correct route but I like the one that Jaden has taken. 125, Superstock 600, Supersport and Superbike next year. He will be 19 and have a good shot at a superbike title in NZ. Andrew is old but he could still challenge the top ten in just about any championship I believe. Beating him is what the goal for all NZ riders should be.

    If you can beat Andrew on a superbike under 20 years old then you have a very bright future IMO

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    Setup a team environment in Australia supported by Kiwi's for young Kiwi's. It's all there on our doorstep. No need to reinvent any wheels. It's only a bloody plane ride for christ sake.
    "That's rooted!! What's next??"

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHOPPA View Post
    I couldnt care less if I won every other Championship in New Zealand. The only one that really counts to me is the Superbike
    Yerr,But who cares what you want to win,This thread is about getting YOUNG AND UP AND COMING riders noticed by the Moto Gp gods wasnt it????

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHOPPA View Post
    There is no correct route but I like the one that Jaden has taken. 125, Superstock 600, Supersport and Superbike next year. He will be 19 and have a good shot at a superbike title in NZ. Andrew is old but he could still challenge the top ten in just about any championship I believe. Beating him is what the goal for all NZ riders should be.



    If you can beat Andrew on a superbike under 20 years old then you have a very bright future IMO
    You missed Buckets,Streetstock and Junior motocross,Thats where he started!!!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by oyster View Post
    The usual myths abound....
    "Find young talent"
    "No resources /money"
    It's all BULLSHIT
    I've been lucky to be at the front line of Junior development now for over 10 years and I can assure anyone that it takes very little effort, resources and money. The model in Canterbury is evidence of this and we've offered the knowledge of this program to MNZ and many clubs around the country countless times.
    That these clubs and and our national leadership shun this advice and pursue other ideas which fail is nothing short of unbelievable.
    Totally agree with oyster on this. its so simple its stupid, my 10 year old has been loaned a RS50= free except my time to prepare it (which jack helped do and enjoyed) borrowed some boots and gloves. He got given a helmet (near new) and i got him leathers for his birthday $170 and near new. So its cost about $250 to get him on the track.

    He gets to ride at MCI evens for free in the training class which is added in the rounds just like any other class. They get lunchtime on the track and the odd twilight session (friday night when the tracks not being used anyway) All it costs is a little time and effort to make it happen. We are very lucky down here that MCI see where the future lies and we have good people that JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN!

    My biggest issue is wondering how good he may get and if i can afford to fly around the world while we case the dream? Rob Lewis how is it done? Seriously the next level when he starts racing and on what worries me a bit.....but thats three years off and hes got heaps of cheap fun to be had!

    Brent Cotton
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    Its harder to lose weight than gain horsepower.

  9. #54
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    well maybe all the importers , ie suzuki honda yamaha bmw kawasaki, put in some cash each year , for leading superbike and 600 s/sport, for overseas travel,
    mnz does insurance and entries for those two class winners.....
    thn at least some help to run a bike in aussy or where ever,
    make the nationals more exciting and if winner doesnt want it , second can have it

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne View Post
    well maybe all the importers , ie suzuki honda yamaha bmw kawasaki, put in some cash each year , for leading superbike and 600 s/sport, for overseas travel,
    mnz does insurance and entries for those two class winners.....
    thn at least some help to run a bike in aussy or where ever,
    make the nationals more exciting and if winner doesnt want it , second can have it
    Be good if we could get ALL the above to support the NZ Nationals first

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    You missed Buckets,Streetstock and Junior motocross,Thats where he started!!!
    Similar route that I took. MX-Buckets-250 production racing-600 production-SBK except for the first bike which was a F2 kitted RS250 but we will not mention that piece of shit ae Billy

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gixerracer View Post
    Similar route that I took. MX-Buckets-250 production racing-600 production-SBK except for the first bike which was a F2 kitted RS250 but we will not mention that piece of shit ae Billy
    Exactly..... look at the current crop of young riders in 600,s who have come thru similar channels (inc streetstock / mcc training)
    There might not be many in superbike at the moment but they are on their way........ unless they choose to further their 600 route overseas for a bit longer..... but many of these Hassan/Small/Hoogie/Jones/Skatchill/Cain/Oliver-Max/Devereux/McArthur/Lewis etc.... will get on a superbike either here or overseas in the near future.
    Been a big gap over the years between groups of younger talant, but now they are all coming at once............ cant wait.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by gixerracer View Post
    Similar route that I took. MX-Buckets-250 production racing-600 production-SBK except for the first bike which was a F2 kitted RS250 but we will not mention that piece of shit ae Billy
    Well I never had any trouble winning on it,Still,There was a lot of wet weather in the Manawatu back then,Maybe you were too scared to ride it ????

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Jake Lewis 125GP champion,Seth Deveruex,Prolite 250 champion,Johnny Small,650 Pro twin Champion,Dennis Charlett,600 Supersport champion and an endless list of top line competitors in the National series is good a enough start for me,600 Superstock won by an englishman with NZ heritage and all of a sudden the North Islanders achievements pale in significance,What does that leave,Superbike won by a 40 something year old,Brilliant,So what is it outside of Jaden Hassan(Who incidentally has had training with MCC as have Glen Skachill,Avalon Biddle and Daniel Mettam) that the North Island scheme has produced???

    I'm not gonna get into the whole tit for tat NI vs SI thing, cos it's just like football cards: I'll match your Dennis Charlett with Craig Shirriffs, or raise Choppa, Nick Cole or Hayden Fitzgerald against Jake Lewis, yada bloody yada....it goes nowhere. I was trying to show why the "unbelievable" situation that Oyster see's, is very believable when viewed from further away. And how after 10years of junior "development" the same ol' people are still turning up and winning...and that includes Dennis Charlett who is also over 40 like Andrew Stroud but for some reason that's Ok with you, but Andrew's not.

    The contrast with ASBK, BSB or AMA couldn't be more striking with youngsters battling for their biggest championships on a yearly basis. I'm not maligning MCC, I'm just frustrated that we don't seem to be progressing despite the best intentions on both sides of our ditch.

    Time will show the likes of the 3 Hoogie brothers,Cam Jones,Nick Cain,Eric Oliver Maxwell,Ants Singer and many more from the MCC stable have the ability too step up.

    The point is though,Would they waste their time and especially money,Winning a NZ superbike Championship that means NOTHING in the grand scheme of getting to Moto GP and thats what this thread is about isnt it? Unless Suzuki NZ pick up the tab currently offered to Andrew,Craig and co while theyre in their early teens,It will be a waste of time and money,At 21 your considered too old to be starting in the Superbike/Moto GP classes in Europe.

    The thing with a Superbike title is you are racing and proving yourself against the best riders in NZ. What's the point of taking on the best overseas if you don't even know if you can beat the best here? A Superbike title worth nothing? Beating and/or competing against Stroud, Bugden, Shirriffs, Frost, Fitzgerald, Smith is on a totally different scale to winning any other class. But yes, it does take valuable time, which is why I'm disappointed we don't try harder to concentrate the talent into fewer classes and reward/encourage progression through the classes. If you can run at the front on a GP125 what's the point of doing F3/pro-twins? Get their fast arses on a 600 ASAP! Same for the next step from 600 to Superbike, why languish in 600's for 3 years if you have proven you're competive?

    So I guess the question you have too ask yourself is,Do we want to make our domestic championship better at Superbike level,Or concentrate on getting the talent on the world stage as early as possible???

    So how do you identify talented riders if they don't get to ride against decent opposition? (7 riders completed the Supersport Championship last year) My point isn't about making Superbike better, it's about it being the best proving ground we can provide, with truly international quality opposition and decent depth of field. If we don't prove how good a rider is it's just a lottery whether they're up to international competition or not.

    No,What MCC are doing is not the magic bullet,BUT its alot more effective than the proverbial foot shooting expedition on the North Island!!!
    Probably, but until the clubs and MNZ find a way to work together with a common goal and decent game plan it doesn't really matter.......

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    You missed Buckets,Streetstock and Junior motocross,Thats where he started!!!
    Yes indeed! Bucket racing would be cool for young MX riders to do, chuck some slicks on there 85s and ride for no points. Shame they are not really interested

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