Benefits

[FJRider]

Too true.

Those that earn the least seem to breed the most.

And expect everybody else to support them in their chose lifestyle...

It's ok ....Labour have declared they wil give more money to those on the benefit ... so the kids dont go hungry anymore ...

I'm sure that will work ...

[steve_t]

I LOL'd at Phil Goff pledging to focus on the really important issues and then announcing Labour's Broadcasting Policy which will fix the urgent matter of television advertising being louder than the programming

How much more is Labour going to give to the average beneficiary?

[FJRider]

How much more is Labour going to give to the average beneficiary?

They haven't said ...

But if they put the price of smokes and booze up (more tax income) WHAT WILL CHANGE ...

I'm guessing nothing ...

[Swoop]

$550 a week in the hand wasn't it? And Labour are looking to give her more money.

Remember, the article said that was AFTER the rent had been deducted.

[mashman]

Prostitution.Afetr all it is the world's oldest profession...

heh, I guess's easier than the 2nd oldest, nursing... certainly more guarantee of a job.

Then it's a different story. I just don't see why taxpayers should have to fund a career choice in breeding like a rabbit for those who choose to do so.

I'm with you on the breeding for breedings sake, have a chat with the catholic church ... but it's either all out survival of the fittest or benefits and I kinda prefer the less messy version, coz I iz a soft shite.

How much more is Labour going to give to the average beneficiary?

an extra 60 dollarinos according t telly last night

[FJRider]

an extra 60 dollarinos according t telly last night

How many packets of fag's is that ... after the pokies get THEIR cut ...

[Banditbandit]

Jeez .. I dunno - most of you focus on the parents - but you forget the kids involved ...

In the OECD we rank 29 out of 30 for child health and safety ... just ahead of Turkey and behind Mexico ...

Go here and scroll down to the first table. http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/19/4/43570328.pdf


We don't rank very well on many of these areas ... our top ranking is 13th !!!!!! and that is a good indication of child poverty. This is the problem that needs to be looked ... Children growing up in Poverty

I'm appalled at some of these rankings .. in this country we produce food - and yet children are hungry every day .... we are happy for people to spend millions of dollars building themselves homes ... alongside people living in poverty - Every million dollar house would pay for four average homes for ordinary people ... No, I'm not jealous ... but the New Zealand I grew up in valued security and comfort for all .. this country now values wealth - but that can only be for a few ...

And if we do not do something about it then we are consigning the current generation of children to the same trap ... How do you think attacking that woman with six children and chopping the income to that family will help the children? Your own children and grandchildren will inherit a country which includes those six children and thousands more like them ... they will have grown up in poverty with poor educational outcomes, poor health outcomes, and all the issues will remain ... and possibly be worse - what a future to leave for your children and grandchildren

So what are YOU going to do about that to make sure the problem has not escalated for your own children and grandchildren?

Unemployment has increased (increasing child poverty) .. food prices have gone up (increasing child poverty) ... People can't afford to take children to the doctors ... parents can't afford to buy books for their children to improve their reading ...

So, Yes, I agree there are some irresponsible people out there who get pregnant when they can't afford to raise children ... I agree there are a few (very few) women who get pregnant to get a grerater income, I agree there are people who see unemployment as a career choice (I've met people in all those areas .. but bugger all ) .. when was the last time you rightwing beneficiary bashers actually met any of the peopel you attack??

BUT it's not the children's fault ... So, how do you plan to improve the lot of the children so they get the best start they can in life and don't continue the problems for your children's future and your grandchildren's future ???? You don't want to give more money to the parents ... you should not want to take the children away from their parents (housing and feeding them in homes is more expensive and may have other undesirable effects ...)

Any actual workable suggestions anyone???

[shrub]

Jeez .... Any actual workable suggestions anyone???

Thank you for a well worded reality check.

I think New Zealand has lost it's standing economically and socially because New Zealand has lost it's way. It started when Muldoon tried to introduce some bizarre economic policies 40 years ago and when Douglas and Lange took over they didn't put us back on the right path, they took us down an even worse path. We tried to be something we could never be, and now we are not only lost, we don't even know who we are, what we are or where we want to be.

We are no longer a proud, independent and egalitarian people that believe in justice, fair play and looking after the little guy. We are no longer a gutsy, determined and innovative nation that knows how to overcome challenges by using our brains and whatever is at hand. We are no longer a people who have the courage to own our problems and find our own solutions.

We blame the poor for not only being poor, but for stopping us being richer than we already are - that woman with the 6 kids - it's her fault I didn't get a tax cut, and because I didn't get a tax cut I can't afford a 5 bedroom house or a new Mercedes SUV. I expect her to improve herself and her situation by gaining skills and finding work, and I think it's entirely fair that if she does get part time work she has her DPB cut at a dollar for dollar rate, but I don't see why I should work any harder or earn more money without a tax cut.

We blame the children of the poor for failing at school and not becoming forex traders like John Key, we blame the poor for stealing the possessions we flaunt and we blame the poor for hiding from their problems with alcohol and drugs.

The reason we are so keen to blame the poor for so much is because they are not us. If we blame them it means the problem isn't ours and we don't have to do anything. We can agree over a glass of Otago Pinot Noir that it's time the government "took a tough stance on beneficiaries" and because the poor (especially those brown poor) are not us, they can be dealt with without impacting on our lifestyles in the slightest.

Only problem is "they" are us. "They" won't go away no matter how "tough" Pavlova Bennett is or even how much WFF Phil Goff offers. The only way to get rid of "them" is to make them into "us". It means we need to find ways to get more people working like "us", including reintroducing things like the MOW. Or maybe we need to provide extra resources for the poorer schools, and even provide food, so their kids leave school equal to our kids. It mean some of us go from having far more than we need to just more than we need. We might have to engage with "them" so they can learn the skills and develop the attitudes that give "us" what we have.

As long as "they" are the problem, and as long as we expect the government to "do something about it" things will get steadily worse, and that means all of us but a very small minority will be worse off. It means one day we will be "them".

[mashman]

a wiff of reality

Any actual workable suggestions anyone???

cannae gee ya mer bling etc...

Yes there is a workable alternative! Make the local NZ economy free. Like it or not, tis the only way every single last mutherfuckin one of ya is going to get what you "want" for your fellow country folk and the only way, given our location and position in regards to our neighbours, every body neeeds good neighb..., that every NZ'er can get a fair go. No amount of money will change the way we live, so lets use no amount of money

Til then, this way of life will keep on growing

[Winston001]

Guys - very few New Zealanders rich or poor would say "tough luck" to children living in poverty. We live in a well-off generous society which provides a social safety net for people in straightened circumstances. There is money and there is help.

The problem is the adults, the parents who are supposed to care for their children. Some of them simply don't do it. I recently heard of a school where some 5yr old new entrants can't speak, because nobody at home speaks to them. I was involved with a situation some years ago where CYPS intervened to prevent children being in a home with a child molester. The entire family put up a brick wall, denied there was a risk from the guy, and refused to cooperate.

These dysfunctional families are not rare.

There is no point blaming politicians or "the rich" - thats shallow and off target. What we need is direct and massive state intervention in families to protect the children and educate the adults. Sadly no government will do that.

There is another remedy - the Australians tried it for a little over 100 years, and are now facing decades of backlash. Its called The Stolen Generations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations

[avgas]

Any actual workable suggestions anyone???

Army, Navy, Airforce and MOW

Plenty of parents in the first 3 already. Why not get more. The 4 just needs to be jump started

[avgas]

in this country we produce food - and yet children are hungry every day

I have often wondered why we have FONTERRA but we no longer have milk in schools.
Where's the love gone?

[steve_t]

Guys - very few New Zealanders rich or poor would say "tough luck" to children living in poverty. We live in a well-off generous society which provides a social safety net for people in straightened circumstances. There is money and there is help.

The problem is the adults, the parents who are supposed to care for their children. Some of them simply don't do it. I recently heard of a school where some 5yr old new entrants can't speak, because nobody at home speaks to them. I was involved with a situation some years ago where CYPS intervened to prevent children being in a home with a child molester. The entire family put up a brick wall, denied there was a risk from the guy, and refused to cooperate.

These dysfunctional families are not rare.

There is no point blaming politicians or "the rich" - thats shallow and off target. What we need is direct and massive state intervention in families to protect the children and educate the adults. Sadly no government will do that.

Well said!

[Banditbandit]

Guys - very few New Zealanders rich or poor would say "tough luck" to children living in poverty. We live in a well-off generous society which provides a social safety net for people in straightened circumstances. There is money and there is help.

Don't disgree .. just get annoyed with people who want to reduce benefits ...

The problem is the adults, the parents who are supposed to care for their children. Some of them simply don't do it. I recently heard of a school where some 5yr old new entrants can't speak, because nobody at home speaks to them. I was involved with a situation some years ago where CYPS intervened to prevent children being in a home with a child molester. The entire family put up a brick wall, denied there was a risk from the guy, and refused to cooperate.

Don't disagree - the children are not the problem - it's often the parents who are ...

These dysfunctional families are not rare.

Unfortunately no .. and they produce disfunctional children

There is no point blaming politicians or "the rich" - thats shallow and off target. What we need is direct and massive state intervention in families to protect the children and educate the adults. Sadly no government will do that.

Not blaming the rich either - except when they avoid their social responsibilites of paying tax - or demand social welfare cuts so their taxes can be reduced ... but HOW do you intervene in familes ... without creating another stolen generation?

There is another remedy - the Australians tried it for a little over 100 years, and are now facing decades of backlash. Its called The Stolen Generations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations

Yes .. which is why I said taking children away from these families is not the answer ...

[steve_t]

This is interesting - even Labour and Greens voters agree with it

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...-plans-popular