MotoGP 2012

[denill]

4th fastest here on an 800

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/1111080wsa3.htm

[DidJit]

Be like going to a WSBK.

Doesn't look very WSBK to me. But then again, I don't know shit... More here.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Doesn't look very WSBK to me. But then again, I don't know shit... More here.

But when you hear talk of control ecu's and lowered and enforced rev limits, it sure as fuck doesn't sound like Moto GP either.

[DidJit]

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It's a tough one alright. But making them more and more like noisy proddie bikes ain't the answer in my eyes.

[Oscar]

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.

That pretty much sums it up,the only thing to add is the fact that Brand H and Brand D currently represent most of the grid and consequently have too much bargining power. The whole 800 experiment was the behest of Honda, who threatened to take their toys and leave.

It's great to have state of the art prototypes, but as things stand if either Honda or Ducati withdrew, there would be no MotoGP.

[DidJit]

I know, the teams and factories need to get sponsorship from the world's banks — they all seem to be making nice lil' profits these days. HSBC Honda, Santander Group Ducati, CCBC Yamaha, BBVA Suzuki, ICBC Kawasaki. Sorted.

[Cleve]

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.

exactly - it took Honda with its huge price increases to lease the 1000 plus the enormously expensive gearbox for Carmelo to finally have the ability to put the fight back to the factories (mostly Honda). I don't blame Honda at all. Their philosophy is win at all cost and the result is some of the best and most beautiful race bikes in the world. However it has just got too much. And similar to what F1 did a year or so back they are looking at workable and creative solutions. The CRT thing will be forced to work. Carmelo has clearly stated that if CRT's need even bigger fuel tanks to be competitive then he would look at that. I think sexy frames and fairings from lots of different manufacturers (like Moto 2) with lots of different engines as well (not like Moto2) is potentially great - as long as they are the fastest, sexiest machines and the racing is close and exciting.

[k14]

Oh, are you talking from a purist's point of view? Haha

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again. "CRT" is just a way to try to achieve that. Do you think the engineers and electronics gurus won't try to maximise every bit of performance out of whatever they have to work with?

Right now, €4,500,000 + €750,000 (that's roughly about NZ$9 million at the moment) for a Honda satellite and one of their trick gearboxes is just an obscene amount of money. Then you have team wages, rider wages, hospitality, management, etc. With no limitations, the factories are driving costs up and up. I reckon with a few restrictions, you will still see engineers and teams push on technologically to get "that little bit extra" out of what they've got to work with; you'll still see the bikes getting faster and faster.

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years. Even though the Moto2s aren't like the 250GP bikes of old, you still see great racing, great talent coming to the fore, and more and more development on those machines making them faster and faster within the confines of the Moto2 rules.

Thats spot on. I read the other day that Bradl can't afford to get into MotoGP because his sponsors will "only" bring $2.5 million euro. So I guess that means another year for him in Moto 2. Something has to be done to avoid the yawn fest of 90% of the races from this season. Control ECU is probably not a bad place to start. Take some leafs out of F1's book, that is normally a yawn fest but this year has been heaps more interesting than MotoGP.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. Something has to be done to avoid the yawn fest of 90% of the races from this season. .

Hell man...you must be watching different races to me.

[CHOPPA]

Introduce pit stops I love the flag to flag races when it rains halfway through....

Bautista is the one to watch for next year id say. Not for the title but to step into Marcos spot on the track (and the team)

[eelracing]

Essentially the problem at the moment (which Paul Butler also alluded to in an interview recently) is that MotoGP bikes cost too much and the teams (particularly Honda) have too much power. Apparently Marquez was asked for $5.5m for a Honda, plus half a mill for the flash gearbox!

This same rational has been used to get rid of the last two pure prototype classes.I can see a pattern forming and it shits me no-end thinking of the consequences

Dorna is expecting 24 bikes on the grid by 2013, so that means 10 or 11 CRT bikes?

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That would be great, maybe they'll all be CRT bikes by then ?

Stop taking the piss roog.

What's poor ol' Carmelo to do? The increasing expense of fielding a MotoGP bike (in the purist's sense) and team has meant there are fuck all starters on the grid. Carmelo is trying to drive costs down so that (one day) there are 24 bikes on the grid again.

We hav'nt had full grids since the early Eighties.And anyways who gives a toss about who finishes off the podium?

And, anyway, once the "economy" recovers and there's a full field of bikes on the grid again, the rules will change again and something more akin to "the good ol' days" (from a purist's perspective) may eventuate again. Just look at it as a bit of a stop gap for a couple of years.

Ah this old chestnut...don't hold your breath Didjit

It's great to have state of the art prototypes, but as things stand if either Honda or Ducati withdrew, there would be no MotoGP.

Utter rubbish...it's survived without them before and Honda could'nt stand being out of THE premiere series for long.

exactly - it took Honda with its huge price increases to lease the 1000 plus the enormously expensive gearbox for Carmelo to finally have the ability to put the fight back to the factories (mostly Honda). However it has just got too much. I think sexy frames and fairings from lots of different manufacturers (like Moto 2) with lots of different engines as well (not like Moto2) is potentially great - as long as they are the fastest

Well we are still waiting for that to happen in Moto2...oh thats right the single engine rule has been added on for another two years.Who did'nt see that coming?
What your asking for is something my dear old gran used to call "all fur coat and no drawers." ie, a tarts handbag.

Introduce pit stops I love the flag to flag races when it rains halfway through....

It's bad enough having roogazza taking the urine but this is the last straw...next they'll be advocating oval tracks and safety cars,hmmmm someone should put it to DornaIt would make the racing so much more closer afterall and should drag in more fans and sponsorship.

[Oscar]

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Utter rubbish...it's survived without them before and Honda could'nt stand being out of THE premiere series for long.

You have a short memory.
Honda packed up its toys for quite some time the last time (from 1968 to 1979?) and Ducati are relative newcomers (and recently withdrew from SBK to concentrate on NotGP - it could have easily have been the other way round).
The withdrawal of either of them in the last few years would have killed MotoGP stone dead.

[eelracing]

You have a short memory.

Not at all Oscar,you have to ask yourself what brought them back???...it would'nt of been the fact that Suzuki then Yamaha were taking all the 500 spoils would it?Something that Honda had never done I might add.They even went as far as being forced to build a hated two stroke.
No mate Honda and Ducati are in there for one reason only...to be the best.If they no longer want to be the best then good riddance I say.

[Oscar]

Not at all Oscar,you have to ask yourself what brought them back???...it would'nt of been the fact that Suzuki then Yamaha were taking all the 500 spoils would it?Something that Honda had never done I might add.They even went as far as being forced to build a hated two stroke.
No mate Honda and Ducati are in there for one reason only...to be the best.If they no longer want to be the best then good riddance I say.

Actually you kinda proved my point.
When Honda came back in 79 the other factories were involved.
At the moment, they have nothing left to prove, and little to race against.

Anyway, whether you agree or not, this is how the folks at MotoGP see it, and it's one of the factors that led to Moto1.