Is John Key the man to lead NZ?

[Maha]

Maybe so and they aint perfect. Generally I dont much care for Americans myself and its not a favoured destination. But we owe people like Nimitz and a whole heap of dead marines for saving us from Japanese invasion.

Try walking down (or up) Queen st sometime, you'll soon start thinking you are not in NZ.

[Usarka]

A couple of banjo's and a few hallelujahs and this thread will be complete.

[Robert Taylor]

Try walking down (or up) Queen st sometime, you'll soon start thinking you are not in NZ.

Yes thats a sad irony isnt it!

[oneofsix]

Try walking down (or up) Queen st sometime, you'll soon start thinking you are not in NZ.

You are not. You are in corporate USA. Even our own Government departments say so.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6016...oftware-patent

[shrub]

OK, so is there anyone who resembles a better leader than John Key?

Depends on what you want in a PM. Personally I want a PM who can hold his own with any world leader on the international stage, who has a strong understanding of the political processes and international law, has the respect of people from all sides of the political spectrum (even if he or she isn't liked) and can make a hard decision. In the current lineup from all parties, I like Kennedy Graham of the Greens. He has taught international politics and international law at the School of Law, Canterbury and Victoria University and at the College of Europe in Bruges. He has worked for NGOs in New York, the UN in Europe and the Middle East, and as a NZ diplomat in Asia, Europe and North America. He was involved in negotiating the South Pacific Nuclear-Free Zone, defending the policy before the UN in Geneva and New York. He was also Director of a UN academy in Jordan.

Ken holds a B.Com from Auckland University, a BA Hons in Political Science from Victoria; an M.A. from the Fletcher School of Law & Diplomacy, Boston (Fulbright); and a Ph.D. in Political Science from Victoria University. He was also a Fellow at Cambridge University, studying in the Global Security Programme. He has gravitas and is respected by everyone in parliament.

Anyway, democracy is it's own worst enemy. Think about it, in order to make the hard decisions to run the country you need to remain in government, yet to remain in government you need to stay popular.

Also, I would venture that not even half of all eligible voters would pass a basic 'are you qualified to vote' exam based on some simple questions....so an election is just a glorified popularity contest.

Which is why we have a phenomenally popular PM who has achieved little and is not all that bright. It's also why I like MMP and the concept of list MPs. A person can be elected as the candidate simply because they win the people over - remember Bob Clarkson in Tauranga? Or even worse they get elected simply because they wear the right button on election day, and so we end up with buffoons like Jerry Brownlee in Ilam. Talking to people who have worked with him, he is incompetent, a bully and cunning rather than intelligent, but on Saturday he will return to parliament and government simply because the vast majority of people in Ilam vote National by default.

[avgas]

Absolutely correct. So when the millions of Indonesians or Chinese decide they want our stuff, you really think a few antique Skyhawks would make them think again?

Skyhawks no
F16, Tomohawks, LAV-AD's, proper frigates, Predator drones, MP5's and a strong volunteer service. Yes.

Right now all we can throw at them is some tugs, a couple of cargo aircraft, South Canterbury Finance and some benefit bludgers.

Even our LAV's only suited to land combat are doing tours on overseas turf.
Not saying we stand a chance against anyone good. Just a simple localized regime that wants our stuff.

The best weapon you can have is one that is often seen and never used. But I don't really think of the forces like that. I think of them more as a hand replacement of Ministry of Works. Get young people trained and motivated to work.

[imdying]

Skyhawks no
F16, Tomohawks, LAV-AD's, proper frigates, Predator drones, MP5's and a strong volunteer service. Yes.

Hahahah, you're joking right?

[avgas]

Hahahah, you're joking right?

No I usually start a joke like this
"Three beneficiaries walk into a pub, the all buy a beer and one says to the other "You know what I did today?"........"

or
"Pouring money into a failed financial markets always offer sweet returns....."

or
on the odd occasion I make farting noises. Gets a few giggles.

[imdying]

No

Ok, so how is that tiny assortment going to put off or defend against the PRC, an outfit of some 2 million troops?

[superman]

Compulsory military training with the option for "no I don't believe in guns" to go and do Civil Emergency training... guess the women could do that too.

Expensive... but would be good I reckon.

[shrub]

Compulsory military training with the option for "no I don't believe in guns" to go and do Civil Emergency training... guess the women could do that too.

Expensive... but would be good I reckon.

OK, so you think CMT is a good idea - are you in the services, or have you been in the services? if so, why did you 717? If not, I assume you are planning to join, which service? Will you do a trade or go in as a grunt?

[avgas]

Ok, so how is that tiny assortment going to put off or defend against the PRC, an outfit of some 2 million troops?

Not too badly.
Of course this entirely depends on timing. They are getting closer to building a air-craft carrier and decent combat wing. So say they brought that along we'd be fucked.

But against 2 mil troops with AK's we do ok.

Its all kind of irrelevant as they would just hit us with long range rockets, or break our banks if the PRC wanted us.

But I am more concerned with the likes of PNG, Fiji, indochina etc. If they spend money on something to get us they could do some damage. We need a force to keep them at bay. Even if its just preventative.

But as mentioned earlier. I still believe the forces are required in NZ.......even as a place where young folk can get some work skills.
The "toys" are required to get them in the door.

The alternative is compulsory service, which isn't a bad thing as a whole. But I suspect you would be against compulsory service, even if it was the salvation army.

[avgas]

Compulsory military training with the option for "no I don't believe in guns" to go and do Civil Emergency training... guess the women could do that too.

Expensive... but would be good I reckon.

Would be good if we have more CD trained people in the general public. Disasters seems to be happenin alot late.

[Winston001]

Defend ourselves against who? The only countries that have invaded others in my lifetime have been Iraq and the USA.

Simply for the sake of accuracy and from memory, armed conflicts/war over the past 40 years:

North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam
Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands
Angola
Nicaragua
Russia invaded Afghanistan
China invaded Tibet
Serbia invaded Croatia + Montenego etc etc
Russia invaded Chechnya


There are plenty more especially in Africa. The point is, the USA is not quite the war-warmongering nation the popular press makes it out to be. More a case of being the worlds policeman and a thankless task it is. For example the European armies could not and did not halt the Serb-Croat genocides and that 10 year conflict only ended when the USA lost patience watching and acted decisively.

Then there are the American soldiers who died trying to keep the peace in those choice spots known as Lebanon, Kenya, and Somalia.

Americans are good people and its a crying shame they were led into the current wars by GW Bush.

[shrub]

Simply for the sake of accuracy and from memory, armed conflicts/war over the past 40 years:

North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam
Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands
Angola
Nicaragua
Russia invaded Afghanistan
China invaded Tibet
Serbia invaded Croatia + Montenego etc etc
Russia invaded Chechnya


There are plenty more especially in Africa.

I stand corrected, and I'd add one more: Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006.

The point is, the USA is not quite the war-warmongering nation the popular press makes it out to be. More a case of being the worlds policeman and a thankless task it is. For example the European armies could not and did not halt the Serb-Croat genocides and that 10 year conflict only ended when the USA lost patience watching and acted decisively.

Then there are the American soldiers who died trying to keep the peace in those choice spots known as Lebanon, Kenya, and Somalia.

Americans are good people and its a crying shame they were led into the current wars by GW Bush.

I agree, I have met a lot more poms I don't like than yanks I don't and while the cynic says much of acting as the world's policeman is influenced by the military industrial machine, the US have done a lot of good. Iraq was a strategic blunder of monumental proportions and has been one of the main reasons there is no chance of a good outcome in Afghanistan.