Rear brake use?

[Fast Eddie]

If I'm not wrong...that's Allan Kirk and his mates? Allan Kirk couldn't ride his hand without falling off it.

hahahahaha ahhh, gold! ^

[Fast Eddie]

Some more than others. When both Hayden and Pedrosa were on Hondas, Hayden ran a bigger disc on the back 'cause he used it more.

I think it was Mick Doohan had a thumb lever fitted to his bike to operate the rear brake. He seemed to think the back brake was important.

Doohan prob used it as traction control on the 500cc gp beasts

[Crasherfromwayback]

Doohan prob used it as traction control on the 500cc gp beasts

Think he used to use it mid corner to settle it, and on the way out as an anti wheelie control.

[Fast Eddie]

Think he used to use it mid corner to settle it, and on the way out as an anti wheelie control.

nice, those 500 gp bikes tended to leave the corner rear wheel spinning and sideways though.. old Schwantz & co.

[Crasherfromwayback]

nice, those 500 gp bikes tended to leave the corner rear wheel spinning and sideways though.. old Schwantz & co.

Like a 500cc two stroke dirt bike. They spin like fuck, but when they grab traction out of the blue from somewhere...it's instant wheelie city!

[Usarka]

What I've learnt from KB.

Front wheel = always off ground when accelerating.
Rear wheel = always off ground when braking.
You should always be accelerating or braking.
Therefore rear brake useless unless you need to speed up transition from wheelie to stoppie.

[quickbuck]

Yes Aaron, I have to admit I had this reply ready to go as I was expecting this sort of comment.

To give you an idea on his driving trucks in what he perceives the right way....he uses only the trailer brake (hand control) to do check braking downhill....whereas the correct method is a brief fairly hard application of the service brake (footbrake) which brings all brakes on at the same time. Go figure.

Heaven help us all.....

[Crasherfromwayback]

What I've learnt from KB.

Front wheel = always off ground when accelerating.
Rear wheel = always off ground when braking.
You should always be accelerating or braking.
Therefore rear brake useless unless you need to speed up transition from wheelie to stoppie.

Finally someone has taken it all on board!

[Fast Eddie]

What I've learnt from KB.

Front wheel = always off ground when accelerating.
Rear wheel = always off ground when braking.
You should always be accelerating or braking.
Therefore rear brake useless unless you need to speed up transition from wheelie to stoppie.

lol just ride it all like a speedway bike and flag the brakes all round and just do the left hand corners

[Fast Eddie]

Like a 500cc two stroke dirt bike. They spin like fuck, but when they grab traction out of the blue from somewhere...it's instant wheelie city!

that sounds kinda fun, where do I sign up?

[Crasherfromwayback]

that sounds kinda fun, where do I sign up?

They are. Plenty of 5 hundies avail for sale nowadays mate. Cheap too.

[GrayWolf]

Haha, yep the above dribble reminds me of a brief discussion I had with one of my fellow biking colleagues. I mentioned I was going to attend some Prorider courses. His response: "What the hell for? You've been riding for years...." To which I responded: "Quite simple really, I wanna be the best rider I can be. And anyway, you've been driving trucks for 20 odd years too and yet you still can't do that properly."

The best place to learn is at a course, preferably on a track or other place where no traffic is around. The next best thing might be to take on board the advice from a longtime biker whose opinion you respect....obviously this forum is such a place at times, yet at others it's overrun by Richard Cranium impersonators.

I'd like to think I'm neither thick, or have a particularly low opinion of people. I never said he treats everything he reads as gospel, I said he seems to think the books he quoted are. Due to his emphatic belief in what they say, and how irritated he seemed to get when I questioned him and them.

Also, does the book that dribbles about counter steering, give any other method of steering Grey Wolf? Your quote says counter steering can be used sometimes when turning a bike.

So who teaches the teachers? How did the people writing books learn without someone to tell them?

I am part way through watching Twist of the wrist 2 on DVD (I can only take so much American cheese at once), and it is impressive to see the video actions going with the words. Keith's 'cheesy' message seems to be about balancing the bike with throttle control; no mention of rear brake use so far.

Was busy at work to reply to this, however.
Firstly, who teaches the teachers? Many on here are able to remember the racing drivers/riders from the 60,70,80's. Historicaly, old style riders didnt climb all over the bike, find clips of riders like John Surtees, Mike the bike Hailwood. Then in the 70-80's bikes had enough power for the Spencer, Roberts, Dunlop era riders to start power sliding then power drifting through corners. It was an evolution of style and machine. Those of you who go on 'track days' are being taught by people who are taught by/from the experiences of those riders.
(Remember please that in the 1970's barry Sheene came off his WORKS Suzuki at 170mph.. in this age, road bikes are faster than that racing bike, and with more engine power).
My comments are simply that racing techniques are to enable you to push you and your machine to the limit.. On a surface designed for good traction, good 'cambers' good vision and no kerbs, ditches, sheep fences, gravel, sheep shit etc over the surface or within feet of the road edge.
The reason the Police roadcraft manual is 'quoted' as a bible? Is because it IS a systematic approach to driving. It is a system that doesn't operate on the 'what works for me' method. It teaches a 'correct' approach to hazzards and driving technique that has a repeatable and reliable outcome when used correctly.
The attached clip is one I was looking for, it shows Vicki from 5th gear a racing driver, and a Police driving instructor having fun.....
It demonstrates very well the difference between the Racing/System styles of approach to driving.


http://www.streetfire.net/video/5th-...ach_135964.htm

[Drew]

http://www.streetfire.net/video/5th-...ach_135964.htm

I think the hot laps they did at the track would have been a better comparison had he been let loose to do a lap his way, then after some tutorial from her. And her doing a lap the way he drove.

But I digress. I'm confused as to how that has anything to do with what we're talking about. It's cars, not the same as a bike at all.

The police pursuit training is certainly relevant in hazard identification though, even though the cop we saw at first didn't seem to give them much heed.

[Fast Eddie]

They are. Plenty of 5 hundies avail for sale nowadays mate. Cheap too.

ha are you serious? I'v never ever seen a 500cc two stroke race/sports bike for sale. The closest I'v got was riding a restored 70's kawasaki h1 triple cyl 2 stroke. Good fun but not really a moto gp bike

[Fast Eddie]

ha are you serious? I'v never ever seen a 500cc two stroke race/sports bike for sale. The closest I'v got was riding a restored 70's kawasaki h1 triple cyl 2 stroke. Good fun but not really a moto gp bike

I'm gonna take a stab and assume you were meaning 500cc 2T dirt bikes, Crasherfromwayback