Safer Journeys for Motorcycling

[trustme]

You're not wrong.
That's called Negotiating.
To Negotiate we have to have something to offer. The only way I see that happening is either a) we take something away they take for granted or b) we come up with something new that they want/need.

As you can see I have "built a few fences" in the past. So when I say "we're fucked" I don't do so light-heartedly.
Either we attack back with 'a'.........unless someone can come up with a genuine 'b'.
Neither a nor b happens with paper work.

Attack with what ? we are too smaller a group to really be effective.

We need a plan 'B'. give them what they want which is a reduced accident rate for motorcyclists.

Ultimately the answer is in our own hands.

Yeah yeah, I sound like Katman

[davereid]

I believe that the key to preventing accidents is education, (that word again), driver education, many hours of learning how to drive a car or motorbike before actually can start think of sitting the test. Inclusive many hours of learning the theory of how to behave in traffic, how to read traffic, how to communicate in traffic with others that also want to go somewhere. I also believe that having to pay for the pleasure of learning how to drive/ride will add value to the license one will receive when sitting a test successfully. It then is something one has earned. And knowing that I have to re-do the license should i behave myself like a pinhead of sorts, even sitting some "psychological assessment - idiot test' to estimate my chance of re-offending, should hopefully make one think twice before riding like nutter up and down the road scaring granny.

The issue is that in many poorer areas of New Zealand, the rates of un-licenced drivers are soaring.

As the test has become harder and more expensive, many poorer people are finding it beyond their reach. The good ones get used to begging rides, and taking the bus.

Many drive anyway.

While we can (and do) impound vehicles, the system is actually pretty limited in its ability to sanction the really poor. We cant fine them. They don't attend community service sentences, and when we impound vehicles, they simply go and get another one as its easier and cheaper (and faster) that waiting 28 days and paying a fortune to get the old shitter back.

We end up, at massive expense, either abandoning any attempt at punishment, or we have to resort to prison.

Its not to say that we should not try and improve driver standards via the licencing system. But we have to balance the cost of putting licences out of reach.

Additionally, your Drivers Licence is your National ID card. Politicians want you on that database, and hesitate to put in measures that discourage people from paying government for an ID card.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ho Hum , another thread reduced to a bitch slap.

Get it back on track.

Don't think your too far wrong there
I also don't think anything to improve bike safety will come from the Govt or their departments. They just pump out ignorant "cheap" knee-jerk reactions & call it "doing something" when it's no better than a band-aid on an artery bleed.
I don't think there is a single person in a position of power (relative to roading) that is qualified to be there, not a single one. The MP certainly isn't & NZTA prove time & time again they know next to nothing about roading, licensing, driving, advertising, really anything under their control. It's a fuckup from start to finish no wonder NZ's getting worse on-road

[trustme]

Agreed, Andy Knucklehead has never impressed me.

People on here seem to bag MOTONZ but they seem more in touch with the real world than anyone else who has the ear of the powers that be.

As a group, riders really do have to come up with ways to improve our skills across the board. If we don't, it will be done for us.

So many of us think we know it all , we are infallible & it is everyone else's fault. The reality is somewhat different.

[Berries]

Agreed, Andy Knucklehead has never impressed me.

He's just the media spokesman for the organisation.

[yungatart]

Now THAT sounds like ruffled panties to me.

No, I don't wear any... and if I did it would take a better man than you to ruffle them.

30 + years as a member of BRONZ...meaningless. Anyone can pay a membership fee. What have you actually done whilst a member of BRONZ?

[Flip]

Brian is completely wrong in his assessment and I personally don't understand where he is coming from, I suspect he had read negotiating conflict 101 and how to run a knitting committee and was looking for the job to talk to the authorities on our behalf, as I said KB is not a MC club. With the chip factory on his shoulder he wouldn't last 10 minutes.

I am very happy with the work Ulysses and Bronz have done on my behalf, I would like to see some Bronz and Hog reprentisation on the MotoNZ group. I was very sorry when StoneY got the flick, it showed to me that Dr Gareth Morgan (who I personally don't like or trust) is not the man for the job if he couldn't keep his team together.

Another point is I pay $300 a year medical and income insurance cover in the event I have a bike accident, sounds like a great deal to me.

[MSTRS:Me]

No, I don't wear any... and if I did it would take a better man than you to ruffle them.

30 + years as a member of BRONZ...meaningless. Anyone can pay a membership fee. What have you actually done whilst a member of BRONZ?

Settle down. He's told us already. He's...wait for it...wait for it...lobbied people. Obviously with HUGE success too...

[blue rider]

Listen up, big boy...

...actually grow a vagina, cos they can take a real pounding.

thank you thank you thank you ......you made this day special.
best quote ever...!

[avgas]

Attack with what ? we are too smaller a group to really be effective.
We need a plan 'B'. give them what they want which is a reduced accident rate for motorcyclists.
Ultimately the answer is in our own hands.
Yeah yeah, I sound like Katman

Actually that isn't worth anything to them either.
They can stop "all" motorbike accidents as well - by banning bikes. So if they really wanted it, it would already be done.
The reality is they like money. Currently motorcyclists pay more than they claim. So its a cash cow.
As I said before, We're fucked.

[Katman]

Actually that isn't worth anything to them either.
They can stop "all" motorbike accidents as well - by banning bikes. So if they really wanted it, it would already be done.
The reality is they like money. Currently motorcyclists pay more than they claim. So its a cash cow.
As I said before, We're fucked.

Shit, and I thought I had a bleak outlook for the future.

If the rumours of 2050 are to be believed then yes, the writing is on the wall for us.

The only way to combat that is to see the number of motorcyclists increase dramatically.

The only way that is going to happen is if we get the public on side and start to entice more and more of them into motorcycling.

Trouble is, there's a group within motorcycling who don't want to see motorcycling becoming more mainstream.

The reality is though that that is the only way motorcycling will survive.

[davereid]

The only way to combat that is to see the number of motorcyclists increase dramatically. The only way that is going to happen is if we get the public on side and start to entice more and more of them into motorcycling.

I have checked for a bump on the head, I don't seem to have one, but I am agreeing with Katman.

When I was a kid, it was my mother who taught me to ride. Cars were expensive, and for many families the bus or a motorcycle was the only transport available. I remember watching mum hopping on her scooter, freezing Christchurch winter day to go to work.

The future however may be a return to the past. The capital cost of a car or motorcycle is not going to be the limitation. In the future, parking, congestion, and fuel costs will become an increasing issue for many.

Small, economical and environmentally friendly motorcycles are going to become an attractive option for many.

Thats actually where our motorcycle levy would be best spent. Helping people onto that first motorcycle.

I'm currently working on my safer roads consultation document. And I'm also putting together some resources to demonstrate the financial and environmental advantages of small motorcycles.

I was actually quite amazed at just how good modern small motorcycles have become, and equally amazed at how much poorly researched "science" exists which demotes the very good environmental advantages of small motorbikes.

[StoneY]

I was actually quite amazed at just how good modern small motorcycles have become, and equally amazed at how much poorly researched "science" exists which demotes the very good environmental advantages of small motorbikes.

Yeah my 916 (my smallest bike) rocks
One thing we must retain for our own identity and individuality, is the right to choose your ride.

But I do agree, the smaller bikes are simply amazing these days.

[Berries]

If the rumours of 2050 are to be believed then yes, the writing is on the wall for us.

Having spent time at the MOT, LTSA in the Tony Bliss days, LTNZ, Police and ACC head offices discussing road safety over the last 15 years I still don't believe that rumour.

How did it start again?

[blue rider]

The only way to combat that is to see the number of motorcyclists increase dramatically.

The only way that is going to happen is if we get the public on side and start to entice more and more of them into motorcycling.

This is already happening, the amount of small bikes and scooters in Auckland has dramatically increased over the last two years.
Gasoline is just going up in costs that is given, and not everyone who can't afford a car will go for the pushbike or the bus.....it is the small bike/scooter which will be the viable option.
However a lot of those on scooter are suicidal it appears, any wear will do, no safety aspects at all, no training required etc. etc.