Smarty pants... since ages ago
Highlighted ... is the small flaw in your arguement ...Originally Posted by Clockwork
To enter a gap that is decreasing as you enter is foolish ... and with no guarantee the driver of the vehicles have seen you ... let alone allowing you space to pass safely ...
The dubious legality of lane-splitting ... plus the dubious nature of the mind-set of cage pilots, in rush-hour traffic ... combine to make it a risky proposition ... at best.
When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...
Senior Grumpy Old Bastard
Thing is we all lane split at some time or another. It's the ''HOW' that is causing constant arguement. I for one am in the Caseye, Katman, (and yet to see Mr Duece's response) school of thought. Lane splitting may be 'technicaly' legal, but as I pointed out before in the event of an accident it will be seen as a contributory factor in the accident by insurance companies at the very least. What seems to be a national attitude and maybe worldwide to a great extent, is the speed motorcyclists choose to lane split.It is seen by some ... the allowance of "right of way" to those that are not entitled to it, merely encourages them in future times ...
Thus ... we must enforce our rights ... to the death if necessary ...
Quote from the UK Police Motorcycle Roadcraft book: "The advantages of filtering along or between stopped or slow moving traffic have to be weighed against the disadvantages of increased vulnerability while filtering"
So really the video shows two errors on the riders part. They were not lane splitting SLOW moving or STATIONARY traffic, and they were not expecting the unexpected.
I often read a post saying that a rider has yet to see 'fast lane splitting' yet I observe it several times a week. So maybe the ones NOT seeing fast lane splitting are in fact 'fast lane splitting' themselves.
What I do observe is when its raining or cold? I hardly see a bike on the Hutt Motorway
The 'advice' around lane splitting is (UK POLICE) if the traffic reaches 50kph, you should NOT be considering lane splitting, a cars manouvering ability is starting to become fast enough to cause concern. So ala the post I put in the 'sooooooo unfair' thread about joe numbnuts on his Gixxer undertaing me and 'lane splitting' at roughly 130-140kph, then 'swooping' across the front of the other vehicle into an exit lane???
Some here I guess will consider it 'lane splitting' some here will see 'Darwin in action', for his future.
If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf
Bogeyman
Yup. I don't see any "message", just an ongoing string of finger-pointing and personal abuse wrapped in a popular nut nonetheless personal crusade.
Mixture of failures to see and failures to look, there. Having said that, there's no difference in outcome. The video in question had me arse well puckered before the inevitable, speed difference way too risky for me, and that gap was just screaming trouble from exactly that direction.
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Geriatric hoon
On reflection, and after watching the clip again a couple of times, I just don't see the comments that the rider should have noticed the wheel turning, or the indicator working, are credible in the circumstances.
A turning wheel will often/usually be the first hint that another vehicle is going to change direction but it would need to be noticed a lot earlier than was possible on this occasion.
When I learned to ride it was often mentioned that you should maintain a clear space around yourself. If there's nothing close, there's nothing for you to hit, or to hit you. If some idiot moves into your space, thus removing it, create a new space.
The primary error of the rider, IMHO, is that he had very little space. That he was, as GW said, riding too fast, and not allowing for the unexpected, are also contributing factors.
The ute driver is, of course blameless.
I'm going for a ride
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
God's Evil Twin
Well had another look & everyone seems focused on the bike (cause he got hit) but based on NZ law (not sure about Mexico law) here's what I see.
- The biker did nothing illegal, stupid? some might think, but illegal no!
- The ute however failed to give 3-secs indication, failed to look, failed to give-way (hence the crash), was attempting to push his way into a gap that didn't exist, between 2 trucks no-less (i.e. that gap there was for the trucks braking NOT an extra) & ultimately was the instigator of the crash
- I'd also note the traffic wasn't traveling that fast, as the ute almost instantly stopped & the biker wasn't crushed by the truck. I wouldn't say anyone there including the bike got over 50km/h
Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance"Pornography: The thing with billions of views that nobody watches" - WhiteManBehindADesk
Forum whore
When I was doing a lot of riding in and around London after a while I developed the ability to pick out vehicles suddenly turing across ones path some way ahead. I could never work out what 'signals' that vehicle had given but i know it took until late monday or tuesdays before the "ability" returned proper after the weekend break. Even now I feel safer controlling traffic around me and lane splitting than riding shot gun between bumpers. Lane splitting consistantly safely over time however is a carefully developed acquired skill and not to be undertaken lightly. As Katman said the initial warning signals were NOT the vehicle but the space to its right and indeed the space in front of any vehicle you cant see.
Highway Biker
Because trucks take longer to stop and are slower accelerating when traffic speed increases there is usually a space in front of them. Cars in slower moving lanes often move into this space. Some even think the truck is making room for them. Just something to be aware of.
Rider in training
Who is legally right is very cold comfort when your the one lying their on the ground in pain. Perhaps the rider will now understand why you don't lane split with traffic already moving at a reasonable speed, and why you need to keep the speed differential between you and the traffic flow low.
on the up
Hooray! An enlightened individual!
This is the exact point.
And I to my motorcycle parked like the soul of the junkyard. Restored, a bicycle fleshed with power, and tore off. Up Highway 106 continually drunk on the wind in my mouth. Wringing the handlebar for speed, wild to be wreckage forever.
- James Dickey, Cherrylog Road.
Sir Cumference
Bingo. Although many will still fail to grasp the logic.
The hospitals and cemeteries are full of people who were right.
Raging about right and wrong achieves little - something that many only reflect upon when it's too late.
Ride to survive.
Can I believe the magic of your size... (The Shirelles)
God's Evil Twin
maybee it is "cold comfort" don't change the fact from a NZ perspective the ute is in the wrong.
What do you call "moving at a reasonable speed"??? It turns out those trucks are stopped, that would put the traffic probably round 20km/h & the bike 30km/h at best just before impact.
How slow do you want the speed diff??? If you want to move the same speed as the traffic, stop lane splitting & join them.
Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance"Pornography: The thing with billions of views that nobody watches" - WhiteManBehindADesk
Forum whore
Come on man, the answer is bleeding obvious isn't it? Slow enough so that if someone pulls out in front of you like that, you can stop. What other speed is there?
I'll give you an example of where it's perfectly legal to travel at 50km/h but horribly dangerous. Dual lane road with the two lanes of traffic heading in the same direction. At an intersection ahead for some reason all the traffic that is waiting at the red light is in the left lane. So you, quite legally, travel up the right lane at an acceptable 50km/h. Chances are, some tired impatient car driver, or just simply someone who spies an empty lane, pulls out in your path cutting you off. WTF? You were doing the legal speed limit you curse, not even lane splitting. Yet here you lie on the side of the road while the car driver inspects his front guard and receives a small slap on the wrist from the police.
Tell me, what speed was the safe speed to travel down that empty lane with all that idling traffic sitting there? Sure, the limit is 50. But that doesn't mean it was the right speed.
"trolling"
(Video) Katman bait
take note of the titlethe only one not on the hook is Katman
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down ones life for his friends. (John 15:13)
Senior Grumpy Old Bastard
FFS.... following that logic, in the right or not? Here lies Mr Right, he was right till the last, dead right.
what seems to be missed here is not just the differential between the moving speed... even if you say a reasonable 15-20kph faster, that dosent mean lane splitting at 90k's when others are doing 70.
I'll repeat an earlier section... once the road speed reaches 50kph, it ISNT slow moving traffic any longer, and you should be back into the traffic stream, not lane splitting.
people in posts are accusing the ute of moving into a non existant gap... just what do we think lane splitting is? it's overtaking in a non existant gap, AND a non existant lane. The onus is on US to anticipate and 'defend' against sudden traffic lane changes, and speed changes.
It's time we accepted OUR responsibility for our own safety.
If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf
<- A new way to take a rubber!
In the same situation, I would have gone down just like that biker. The truck to the right would have put me off doing a quick flick countersteer (think I'd rather take my chances under the wheel of the turning ute than the semi on the right).
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