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Thread: Dogs that attack - Is it the dog or the owner?

  1. #46
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    if a dog is brought up being abused most of its life it is more likely to attack someone.

    i do believe in giving the dog a clip if it does something bad

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150 View Post
    I think it is the owners who should have a license to own a dog. By showing their right attitude and knowledge of dog breeds and behaviour one wold prove mental competence to own and care for these lovely animals, no matter what breed. Unfortunately policing it would not be possible. So it is only a wish list
    You summed it up well at the end.

    But you need (hah!) a licence to drive a car - but that doesn't necessarily mean you are a good driver.

    And you need a licence to own a gun (hah! X 2) - but look at who is most likely to use a gun in a crime - rarely is it a licenced owner.

    So a 'dog licence it would work almost as well...

    Now a licence to breed however...

    And Dangerous is dead right about the immature pimply necked scabby mouthed rotten toothed smelly clothed Harley T-shirt wearing "Oh look at me I'm so tough" (said in best Homer Simpson voice) skinhead/shithead types and their dogs (with obligatory studded collar or big-ass chain around the dogs neck...
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
    " Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post

    Now a licence to breed however...
    Now THERE'S a discussion that needs to be had....for more than just dog owners, oops I mean breeeders....

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    You summed it up well at the end.

    But you need (hah!) a licence to drive a car - but that doesn't necessarily mean you are a good driver.

    And you need a licence to own a gun (hah! X 2) - but look at who is most likely to use a gun in a crime - rarely is it a licenced owner.

    So a 'dog licence it would work almost as well...

    Now a licence to breed however...

    And Dangerous is dead right about the immature pimply necked scabby mouthed rotten toothed smelly clothed Harley T-shirt wearing "Oh look at me I'm so tough" (said in best Homer Simpson voice) skinhead/shithead types and their dogs (with obligatory studded collar or big-ass chain around the dogs neck...
    I like, may be marginally more effective. Backyard breeders would be open to being reported & prosecuted. To many mutts running around anyway. Why stop at dogs...

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    I like, may be marginally more effective. Backyard breeders would be open to being reported & prosecuted. To many mutts running around anyway. Why stop at dogs...
    I wasn't thinking about dogs...
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
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  6. #51
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    Neither was I. Natural Selection doesnt work in our species any more...

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    I wasn't thinking about dogs...
    That's off topic but I think we have an understanding

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150 View Post
    I think it is the owners who should have a license to own a dog. By showing their right attitude and knowledge of dog breeds and behaviour one wold prove mental competence to own and care for these lovely animals, no matter what breed. Unfortunately policing it would not be possible. So it is only a wish list
    No amount of fees, fines, rules, regulations, chipping and... licencing will ever change or help the problem we have, as my post right above yours.
    cheers DD
    (Definately Dodgy)



  9. #54
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    Scumdog leads by a nose in the workability stakes. Whichever way you choose to read it.

  10. #55
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    Ok I will add 2c worth here,
    I used to breed and show Rottweilers as a Kennel club registered breeder. I stopped doing so for 2 reasons. Very difficult to find suitable homes, too many 'so called' breeders selling puppies for pathetically low sums. (you cannot raise a good litter of well fed, inoculated, healthy puppies then sell them for $120, which I have seen them advertised for back then. A KC registered and papered dog would be more around the $600+ mark, and you don't make money on doing that either!)

    I worked for a Security firm in the UK for a few years as a dog handler, the difference was we did not use 'multi handled' dogs, we had our own dog, trained them (under strict supervision and selection process) and we were the only person to handle that dog, it was our own personally owned animal, similar to the Police but there are certain restrictions placed on security dogs... one of which was you are not allowed to 'release' the dog to pursue a possible law breaker..... hehehehe but 30ft of rope, on the end of a 12ft handlers leash isn't letting it off the lead is it?
    On a serious note, dogs can have issues of personality, they can be nervous. Example: frequently breeds such as a border collie will 'lurk behind' the owners legs and be snarling, this is a 'fear biter' behavior.. this dog under pressure WILL bite out of fear. Public example would be to; enter its owners property, and inadvertently 'corner' the animal blocking its escape route... its under instant pressure and is going to react badly if pushed further.
    When the dog is selected for 'man work' of any description it is carefully selected for 'personality'.. viciousness, nervousness, timidity, aggressiveness are not acceptable traits. Any reputable breeder will put down a puppy that has such an obvious defect, or they should, but frequently do not because of the dollar value, or they are simply backyard breeders cashing in on a breeds popularity. A balanced dog of my breed? Would if visiting a new environment, walk in like it 'owned the joint' and have no concern for new items, sounds or people.
    The German breeding system has 'breed wardens' these people have every pedigree dog of a breed that is registered to a breeder in a book. Each dog has been temperament tested, checked for 'conformity' to the breed standard not only for genotype, but for character traits as well. Any dog that fails to meet the strict criteria is 'black marked' not to be bred from. The breed wardens will also be involved with the mating selection, to ensure that it is a 'good match'. So there is a huge gap in the control of breeders here and in other countries. One sad example from the UK was a dog that was used prolifically for stud and was a crufts winner for the breeders, but it was a raving nutter for temperament and passed on its traits. Often I used to see aggressive Rottie's, and sure as eggs was eggs ' Dark Charles' was featuring on at least 2 or 3 of the Grandparents/parents bloodlines.

    Most owners in reality want a 'Labrador' .... they dont want the work involved in owning an intelligent 'working breed' such as a Shepherd, Rottie, Weirmeraner. They want a dog that will lounge in front of the fire, but they want a dog that will 'protect' them and the property. Working breeds require 'brain activity' as well as physical activity. How often are dogs left tied up outside all day with no input and nothing to do but be bored? Dog training is simply you being 'pack leader' and setting the pack rules. To say a dog will bite if it feels like it is a somewhat over and understatement of fact. If a dog is not taught manners! it acts to how it is allowed to act. A dog that is 'formally trained to attack a human being' is indeed a 'weapon'. It is trained to react to specific stimuli and situations in a specific manner. However, if that dog will not 'leave' on command, there is either a serious flaw in the training or the dogs selection process.
    I guess what I am trying to point out is the fact of flaws in both breeder selection, ownership selection and frequently simply owners acquiring a breed with no real knowledge of what is involved in that ownership. Until that is remedied there will always be public attacks that are unprovoked, or ones that did get a provocation, but the bite is not acceptable.
    It is an interesting twist of the human psyche, that we own cats, that are allowed to wander anywhere, defecate in anyone's garden AND are allowed to attack (scratch and claw) and we accept that as a cats behavior... now make that cat weigh upwards 0f 20kilos and the relevant size? Suddenly a whole different ball game.
    If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf

  11. #56
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    Hallelujah Graywolf.

    My pyscho Dalmatian was bred from a Canadian Crufts grand champion, would have made a good junk yard dog.

    I have a tick all the boxes Bull Terrier which means I spend at least 2 hours a day, everyday exercising & training her. That's my buzz though, I knew what I was getting & what was required to have a happy, balanced dog. It's hard work.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    Hallelujah Graywolf.

    My pyscho Dalmatian was bred from a Canadian Crufts grand champion, would have made a good junk yard dog.

    I have a tick all the boxes Bull Terrier which means I spend at least 2 hours a day, everyday exercising & training her. That's my buzz though, I knew what I was getting & what was required to have a happy, balanced dog. It's hard work.
    Yep thats it in a nutshell,When our old Border Collie died we had to sit down and think long n hard re another,we are not getting any younger and Borders just dont stop,summers easy as i just about live down the river but come winter its sometimes hard to get motivatedhe doesnt care if its pissing down..all the better to get covered in shite.On the biting thing our old fella had a snap at a kid who grabbed his ear and gave it a yank,from that day on i just couldnt leave him alone with children nor do i with our current one,he loves kids but for the sake of the kids and the dog i just dont.
    Be the person your dog thinks you are...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayWolf View Post
    It is an interesting twist of the human psyche, that we own cats, that are allowed to wander anywhere, defecate in anyone's garden AND are allowed to attack (scratch and claw) and we accept that as a cats behavior... now make that cat weigh upwards 0f 20kilos and the relevant size? Suddenly a whole different ball game.
    and a ball game I work with, only they are 100kg heavyer



    Quote Originally Posted by GrayWolf View Post
    On a serious note, dogs can have issues of personality, they can be nervous. this is a 'fear biter' behavior.. this dog under pressure WILL bite out of fear. Public example would be to; enter its owners property, and inadvertently 'corner' the animal blocking its escape route... its under instant pressure and is going to react badly if pushed further.
    My Dobie is a bit like that and is a trate they often have, he has lerched at my boys, when cornerd, he dosent mean to and looks very worried after he has, best I can do is to avoid him being cornered and to teach my boys the dos n donts.
    When suprised by another dog say at the park he does the same. so yes as a owner we do need to be awear of our dog and own wearabouts at all times, tho not always possable.
    cheers DD
    (Definately Dodgy)



  14. #59
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    Been attacked by three dogs. Two were pitbull crosses and one was a Rotty cross. All attacks were unprovoked and unexpected and the owners were all pleasant responsible people who were devistated.
    Coss-breeds and pitbulls - high risk. I don't buy into the "it's the owners - not the dogs crap". Except - it's the owners who are stupid enough to want a breed such as a pitbull that is designed for agressive fighting. Often their owners were also.

  15. #60
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    Having worked with dogs all my life, managed dog kennels, trained, showed, owned, I have handled pretty much every breed of dog there is, and I can say quite emphatically, that 99% of dog problems are the owners, and the people that associate with the dog.

    The biggest problem is, we expect the dog to act like us, we expect it to think like us, well, they don’t; in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

    They are a completely separate being with different instincts, and when things go pear shaped we scream and kick the dog, when really it’s our fault for not taking the time to understand why they react the way they do.

    Over the centuries, the dog has become expert at reading our body language, and yet very few of us, have taken the time to reciprocate, we just expect them to do what we want and that’s it.

    Let me be clear, here, the majority of crap, the media is pushing about dog attacks is just utter bullshit. If a dog makes up its mind to attack, there will either be very very severe injuries or death, if you have seen a dog fight, you will know what I mean. There are no half measures when a dog goes for it, and the littlies they are showing with scratch marks etc, while unfortunate, are there for another reason, other than an attack, and its our fault for not teaching our kids how to react around dogs, how to read dogs in fact.

    We let dogs into our lives for all the wrong reasons, I had an idiot ring me one day looking to purchase a Husky and when I ask him why a Husky, he thought it would look good in his back yard! I bloody told him to get a statue.

    I wish I could say that he was a minority, but unfortunately it isn’t and until we sit back, learn to communicate, and understand fully what our four legged friends are trying to tell us, then I’m afraid the injuries will continue.
    Ooo look, a pink pig just flew past me window.

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