Why it's important not to have other road users lift their game

[Ocean1]

Driving skills in this country are low. If the purported "1st World Status" of the country is to be believed, our individual driving skills should be much higher.

Then why do the vast majority of us survive hundreds of hours on the road every year?

[Ocean1]

Besides, practising static balance at a Stop sign is a good skill drill (as a second activity to actually looking, of course).

And it'll get you a "failed to stop" ticket prety much every time you're seen.

I've been pinged 3 times for it.

[FJRider]

So then it's your fault if some drunk idiot drives through a red light at 100kmh and wipes you out as you're riding through a green light at 50kmh. Contrary to what Katman will tell you, not all SMIDSY's are the fault of the rider.

I've been involved in several car/motorcycle accident whilst I was riding a motorcycle. The one's where I was NOT at fault ... did not hurt any less, nor was ever fully reimbursed for any loss I suffered at the time.

Nor did "not being at fault" ... make me feel any better. It actually felt worse ...

[Ocean1]

So instead of doing something constructive that will actually make a difference, you just ignore the rules when it suits you?

It's called rational anarchism. It's probably the most accurate description of how most of us behave.

[FJRider]

Then why do the vast majority of us survive hundreds of hours on the road every year?

I think the majority of the one's that do hundreds of hours on the road ... are not the problem.

And have learned to recognise the one's that are ... in the interest of their own survival ...

[SMOKEU]

There you go again - getting hung up on that word 'fault'.

You're always the first to blame the rider in just about any crash, even when you have little, if any knowledge about what happened.

[shrub]

Sorry, maybe I haven't made myself clear. Because I said I could see no good reason for coming to a complete stop at every intersection marked as such does not mean that I blast through them with gay abandon as you seem to assume. I approach EVERY intersection the same way regardless of their markings, depending on my need to turn left or right. In nearly every case when turning right I will need to slow down to almost a standstill in order to ascertain if it is safe to proceed. Note though that I often don't need to come to a complete standstill in order to do this and as such ...... I do... I really do resent pedants such as yourself and possibly officer Scumdog, pinging me simply because I didn't stop when I bloody well didn't need to because the intersection never needed to be a compulsory stop by the first place.

'Tis a sad day for me.... I alway thought you were one of the more intelligent posters on this site, I even agree wholeheartedly with your initial post on this thread but apparently you too have subjects upon which your mind is closed.

You probably picked the wrong person to tell that you don't think stopping at a compulsory stop is necessary. About 12 years ago I was following my then girlfriend home on our pushbikes - I always followed her, the view was spectacular. A guy in a car was coming up to a stop sign to our left obviously we had the right of way. I realised he wasn't going to stop, so I yelled and hit my brakes. He only realised that Jen was there when she went under his car.

He was very apologetic, and his excuse was that he drove that road every day and hadn't stopped because he didn't think anything was coming, and that the visibility was fine. The cop said he had heard the same story many times before, and the guy lost his license for a shitload of time, which I believe cost him his job. He also paid a fine and reparation to Jen.

Jen nearly lost her leg, broke half her ribs, punctured a lung and had half her face torn off. She also lost her job and went from being a super fit and drop dead gorgeous young woman to overweight, depressed and incredibly conscious of her scarring - which was extensive. We split up a year or so later for a lot of reasons and I still curse the loser who didn't think he needed to obey an important safety rule.

Now, tell me again why you don't think you need to stop at stop signs and explain how that will never happen when you're driving?

[Katman]

You're always the first to blame the rider in just about any crash, even when you have little, if any knowledge about what happened.

I don't give a fuck about 'blame' or 'fault'.

If an accident is avoidable, the person who failed to avoid it deserves admonition.

[SMOKEU]

If an accident is avoidable, the person who failed to avoid it deserves admonition.

How do you determine if it was avoidable without actually having witnessed the crash?

[Katman]

How do you determine if it was avoidable without actually having witnessed the crash?

The vast majority of accidents are avoidable.

You're just too entrenched in your victim mentality to recognise it.

[shrub]

The vast majority of accidents are avoidable..

I would add a proviso - the vast majority of crashes are avoidable if you have the right skills and the right attitude.

You're just too entrenched in your victim mentality to recognise it

And that is the attitude that makes crashing unavoidable.

[Katman]

I would add a proviso - the vast majority of crashes are avoidable if you have the right skills and the right attitude.

As I've always said.......

To get anywhere we will first have to suffer the indignation of pointing our finger at ourselves before we ever consider we have the right to point it at anyone else.

[Clockwork]

You probably picked the wrong person to tell that you don't think stopping at a compulsory stop is necessary. About 12 years ago I was following my then girlfriend home on our pushbikes - I always followed her, the view was spectacular. A guy in a car was coming up to a stop sign to our left obviously we had the right of way. I realised he wasn't going to stop, so I yelled and hit my brakes. He only realised that Jen was there when she went under his car.

He was very apologetic, and his excuse was that he drove that road every day and hadn't stopped because he didn't think anything was coming, and that the visibility was fine. The cop said he had heard the same story many times before, and the guy lost his license for a shitload of time, which I believe cost him his job. He also paid a fine and reparation to Jen.

Jen nearly lost her leg, broke half her ribs, punctured a lung and had half her face torn off. She also lost her job and went from being a super fit and drop dead gorgeous young woman to overweight, depressed and incredibly conscious of her scarring - which was extensive. We split up a year or so later for a lot of reasons and I still curse the loser who didn't think he needed to obey an important safety rule.

Now, tell me again why you don't think you need to stop at stop signs and explain how that will never happen when you're driving?

So sorry.... would it have been more excusable if it was just a Give Way sign he bowled through without looking??

Pfft... I've had my say, you're right (as always) and I'm just another of the five percent fuckwits that keeps you such an outstanding member of the 95% club. Funny thing is, no matter how good the rest of you get...... 50% of us will always be below average.

[Swoop]

Then why do the vast majority of us survive hundreds of hours on the road every year?

We hear about the death toll on the roads, but I would like to see some numbers regarding the quantity of crashes/accidents that occur per year. It would be interesting im sure.


Oh dear.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10783288

NZ driving 'crazy, like being in Greece'Visiting drivers say they are shocked at the lack of courtesy and patience displayed by Kiwis

New Zealand may have just had its lowest road toll in six decades, but our drivers are just as rude and reckless as ever, visitors have told the Weekend Herald.

The Automobile Association has echoed their complaints, describing the average car-bound Kiwi as "impatient" and "not very courteous", while a police traffic boss has told of New Zealand's history and reputation for aggressive drivers.

Tamsyn and Mike Hicks yesterday returned to the UK after having been "constantly shocked" by Kiwi drivers and say our attitudes on the road is a regular conversation topic among other visiting Brits.

"We've seen some crazy manoeuvres and a number of close misses - far more than you would ever experience at home," Mrs Hicks said.

"The main reason for it, we found, was impatience. We saw it quoted in a guidebook somewhere that Kiwis are all very lovely and relaxed and gentle, but as soon as they get behind the wheel they turn into these impatient crazy people, and we just experienced that to be true."

One constant problem was tail-gating, she said, which the couple encountered no matter how fast they travelled.

"We just find it infuriating, to be honest, but every time we read about crashes in the paper over here it was almost never blamed on dangerous driving - and generally always the road was blamed.

"You can't blame the roads. It's just the courtesy and the patience."

Mrs Hicks said she was shocked to find the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office advising prospective visitors to New Zealand that the country had a 2010 rate of 8.7 road deaths per 100,000 of population - compared to the UK rate of 3.1.

One UK ex-pat, Aucklander Jamie Roberts, said the quality of New Zealand driving was "one of my rants all the time to my wife".

"It's almost the first thing anyone ever talks about when they meet each other - you say, how are you finding it, and they say it's great - but the driving is crazy, it's like being in Greece or somewhere," he said.

Mr Roberts, who has lived in New Zealand for several years and whose job has him cover around 70,000km of road each year, said he found having to take evasive driving manoeuvres was "alien" when he first moved here.

"Coming from the UK, I never thought we were particularly safe drivers until I lived here," he said.

"I'm not one of these Poms that whinges about other countries - it's a small price to pay to live here - but right from the top down, the attitude to driving is just one of those things like breathing."

A quick Google search found several blog sites by UK tourists dedicated to detesting our driving.

And travellers' bible Lonely Planet advised visitors to take care, writing that the country's roads were "often made hazardous by speeding locals, wide-cornering campervans and traffic-ignorant sheep".

Automobile Association spokesman Mike Noon put the problem down to a combination of our drivers, vehicles and roads.

"Our roads are quite unforgiving and, if you do make a mistake, it's likely you'll end up in a ditch or hitting a power pole. We've got a lot of roads where ... there's too much traffic and crossing the centre line can often mean hitting another vehicle."

As drivers, we were impatient and uncourteous, "and that is not to our benefit", he said.

Acting Superintendent Rob Morgan, national manager of road policing, acknowledged New Zealand had a "history and reputation for having aggressive drivers".

He also said our many two-way roads did not help our statistics.

"Other countries do have many more speed cameras and automatic ways of enforcing speed and other road behaviour, but nothing's ever simple as one answer - a lot of countries we are compared against have far more congestion than we do, and congestion lowers speeds and lowers impacts."

He said complaints from tourists were common.

"But that's always open to debate - for every complaint we get from a tourist, we get another complaint from a local complaining about tourists, so it's a bit hard to form those judgments."

The world's deadliest roads (2010)
1 Greece 113 deaths*
2 Romania 111 deaths
3 United States 106 deaths
4= Bulgaria, Poland 102 deaths
5 Latvia 97 deaths
6 Croatia 96 deaths
7 Lithuania 90 deaths
8 New Zealand 87 deaths
9 Portugal 79 deaths
10 Belgium 77 deaths
18 Australia 60 deaths
30 Great Britain 31 deaths

International statistics are based on 2010 figures, the latest comparisons available, and do not reflect last year's New Zealand road toll of 284, the lowest since 1952.
*Per million pop.

Source: Department for Transport (UK)

[blue rider]

it all comes down to a lack of driving education, and yes yes one can not educate all. But by the light, why can't it made be compulsory to at least have to attend a defensive driving course before getting the L plate and being unleashed on the general unsuspecting public.

There is very little courtesy on NZ Roads, there is very little communication between Road Users (and this is the largest problem imho), there is only a me me me first attitude. Yeah I know, everyone here is very competitive and runs after a ball or is hitting one, but really the road should be treated with some more respect.

as for the stage of NZ Roads, i have seen worse in Italy, or in the South of France, and in the nowhere lands between Switzerland/France/Italy in the mountains. Ha, East Germany after the wall came down, when they ran out of tar, they stopped building...t'was fun.

But one pays attention, uses their horn in tight corners to alert others of the oncoming vehicle, uses their wits and tries to stay on their side of the road etc etc. Here it is more like, my vehicle is bigger than yours, so go get effd.

i just don't get it! Eventually we are all reduced to 30 km/hr on the highway, because people just don't want to "share" the road but rather enjoy using their vehicle as a wank off tool.