Learner Ride to Taupo (Saturday 11 Feb 2012)

**Rehab** · 13th February 2012, 19:03

Originally Posted by Mom

Brings to mind 3leaves at Rangariri, now that really was funny shit

Was it a shit? Wow, that was clever - standing up and everything. No wonder that ute driver looked so horrified...

**The Singing Chef** · 13th February 2012, 19:06

Originally Posted by Methane_Birds

I think that's a bit unfair on the leader of that group. What happened with passing the truck wasn't his fault and over the course of the weekend I don't recall him doing anything that struck me as dangerous. Learner or not, someone in charge of a vehicle is an adult and should be able to make their own decisions. I was concerned a couple of times during the ride on both days that there was a serious amount of sheep activity going on, where the job of choosing the corner speed/entry point/line etc etc was not being made individually, but rather by the person ahead. By person ahead I don't mean the leader, I mean the person immediatly ahead - who could also be a learner.

Given that was happening, I believe Scott did a stellar job of keeping the speed etc safe and the only thing that needs changing is reminding people that they MUST be making their own choices at all times. Yeah, they're there to learn, but that doesn't mean copying exactly what the person in front of you is doing. I wouldn't want to lead if I thought that anything I did would result in someone else crashing because they were copying me rather than thinking for themselves.

The corner decision thing is a bit subjective since my mind reading skills aren't what they used to be when I was a Jedi. However, you don't get a better example than watching a line of bikes pass a truck over a blind crest when only the first two could do it safely. Well, that and I did shake my head a couple of times when someone near the front would start doing tyre warm-ups because they were bored and the action spread back through the pack like they were chained together.

We are all responsible for our own actions out there. While the more experienced have the added responsibility of being watched and copied and listened to (whether they want or even deserve to be) at the end of the day if you pass a truck or ride through gravel on a corner and end up a mushy paste, you can only blame the person who made the desicion to do it.

Good post, yea I agree everybody should "ride their own ride" per say and choose their own entry points and braking points as I only brake for tight corners so I wouldn't want people copying me, needless to say though, I think Armi did a great job on his 150, I saw him in my mirrors the whole time, apart for when he stopped whilst going up a hill.

Was it me they were copying when I was playing around with weighting the pegs and standing up? That would be a sight to see when everyone started to copy that...

I think with staying on the same line as the person in front, should only be done if the said person has good lines and are not riding like a lunatic, my lines were pretty good throughout that trip and Armi was trying to follow them so he can get the idea of seeing through the corner and when it is best to turn in etc... will wait till he posts to see what he thought about following lines.

Will post more later as I am at work and really should start cleaning something haha.

**Grant`** · 13th February 2012, 19:20

Originally Posted by The Singing Chef

I think with staying on the same line as the person in front, should only be done if the said person has good lines and are not riding like a lunatic, my lines were pretty good throughout that trip and Armi was trying to follow them so he can get the idea of seeing through the corner and when it is best to turn in etc... will wait till he posts to see what he thought about following lines.

Following someones lines is not something I would advocate to anybody unless you plan on running off the road with them if they get it wrong. You should always be aware of the person in front of you that is a given! But you should be scanning the road the same as they are looking for your own line, checking the road condition for the line you are planning on taking, your entry point, apex, and exit points to a corner.

Following someones line is a great form of Target Fixation and not something you want to get into the habit of doing.

**The Singing Chef** · 13th February 2012, 19:28

Originally Posted by Grant`

Following someones lines is not something I would advocate to anybody unless you plan on running off the road with them if they get it wrong. You should always be aware of the person in front of you that is a given! But you should be scanning the road the same as they are looking for your own line, checking the road condition for the line you are planning on taking, your entry point, apex, and exit points to a corner.

Following someones line is a great form of Target Fixation and not something you want to get into the habit of doing.

Yea but to get an idea of good lines I would say it helps, depending on who I am riding with I will follow their lines but usually take my own, especially on the ATNR where the pace is pretty quick and I know how my bike corners and what the limits are but if I am trying to learn from somebody (Mind you I usually do it on the racetrack) and they are at a comfortable pace I will tail them till I feel uncomfortable.

But definitely don't focus on the person, you should be looking at vanishing points, road conditions, camber, corner speed, distance between riders etc... maybe another way of putting it across is doing small lessons that people can work on, so for example, a page on the correct line for a corner and showing and describing when you should turn in etc... so that people can practise that with their own knowledge. I will make more intelligable posts when I am at home, finished now so that will be shortly.

**yungatart** · 13th February 2012, 19:34

Originally Posted by Grant`

Thanks for the awesome welcome and licking to greet me with

You're welcome! You don't need to worry till I bark...or start sniffing your....

Originally Posted by Mom

Hugs lovely! Was so yummy to see you, its been far too, far too..

And you! Look after that pale emaciated thing you call a leg, huh?

Originally Posted by Grant`

Following someones lines is not something I would advocate to anybody unless you plan on running off the road with them if they get it wrong. You should always be aware of the person in front of you that is a given! But you should be scanning the road the same as they are looking for your own line, checking the road condition for the line you are planning on taking, your entry point, apex, and exit points to a corner.

Following someones line is a great form of Target Fixation and not something you want to get into the habit of doing.

I agree!
First rule of group riding "RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE!"
Still as Mom says, it was a learning curve and no harm done, thank goodness!

**Maha** · 13th February 2012, 19:36

Originally Posted by Methane_Birds

I think that's a bit unfair on the leader of that group. What happened with passing the truck wasn't his fault and over the course of the weekend I don't recall him doing anything that struck me as dangerous. Learner or not, someone in charge of a vehicle is an adult and should be able to make their own decisions. I was concerned a couple of times during the ride on both days that there was a serious amount of sheep activity going on, where the job of choosing the corner speed/entry point/line etc etc was not being made individually, but rather by the person ahead. By person ahead I don't mean the leader, I mean the person immediatly ahead - who could also be a learner.

Given that was happening, I believe Scott did a stellar job of keeping the speed etc safe and the only thing that needs changing is reminding people that they MUST be making their own choices at all times. Yeah, they're there to learn, but that doesn't mean copying exactly what the person in front of you is doing. I wouldn't want to lead if I thought that anything I did would result in someone else crashing because they were copying me rather than thinking for themselves.

The corner decision thing is a bit subjective since my mind reading skills aren't what they used to be when I was a Jedi. However, you don't get a better example than watching a line of bikes pass a truck over a blind crest when only the first two could do it safely. Well, that and I did shake my head a couple of times when someone near the front would start doing tyre warm-ups because they were bored and the action spread back through the pack like they were chained together.

We are all responsible for our own actions out there. While the more experienced have the added responsibility of being watched and copied and listened to (whether they want or even deserve to be) at the end of the day if you pass a truck or ride through gravel on a corner and end up a mushy paste, you can only blame the person who made the desicion to do it.

Originally Posted by nzspokes

I respectfully wish to disagree. I strongly believe my group was very well lead. But this I will PM you about later.

Having recently been a poorly lead ride that was plain dangerous I feel I know a bit about it.

Scott did a very good job apart from one small error in GPS reading. I doubt I could have done as well. That is the last I will say publicly on it.

The corner marking situation does need work if big groups are used. When I marked the turn off 27 I stopped well short of the turning bay to give riders room to turn. But no body stopped after. I had to wait for the TEC (maha) to come through before I could carry on.

And maybe in future we use per printed maps. GPS may seem like a good idea but maybe not.

Where have said that Scott did anything but a good job?

''I take those comments onboard...
I will lead the next ride (thats me and my group of pace setters)
I personally made a wrong call in letting someone lead a group that had never done that before...my fail on that.
And thats no judgement on the lead rider..theres more to leading a group ride than leading a group ride''.

**Phreak** · 13th February 2012, 19:39

Um... Yeah...

Maybe putting someone without a great deal of experience out in front isn't such a great idea, but I was never uncomfortable with it, nor was I overly taxed by worrying about those behind me. I was checking my mirrors plenty, keeping sight of my TEC most of the time (although I think 7 bikes is about the limit for doing this), and when the group got a little too far seperated due to a hill or tighter corners that some riders might not have been comfortable with, I held out my arm in a 'slowing down' motion, then decelerated, to allow the group to reform nicely. I made sure to keep my speeds completely acceptable at all times. I appreciate the fact that it was a learner ride, so not everyone is going to be at the same skill level, but when I asked each member of my group how they felt about my leading, everyone was happy and had no problems. The only time I think I might have been in error was passing a truck on a fairly long straight section, admittedly it was up a bit of a hill, but he was doing 80 and slowing, so I thought it would be okay to get everyone past. In future if I'm allowed to take the lead again I will remember this, and accommodate to suit.

Yes, I missed the turn before the dam, I was following the GPS and it showed the route I had spent 2 hours setting up, not once was it mentioned to me that the cafe we were intending on stopping at was off this route. All I was told, in which I should have asked for clarification, was that we were going to be stopping at the cafe, not the dam. I should have asked whereabouts said cafe exactly was, instead of assuming it was further down the road past the dam. When I realised my error, we were already a fair distance down the road, and probably should have turned back, but instead made a group decision (with group 2 as well) to carry on. However, I gladly take the blame for this, and it will serve as a good lesson for me. Had this error not been made, the rest of the day would have gone a lot smoother, as I think the next stage (and the plan of 'marking' corners) would have been explained at the cafe where we were supposed to be stopping. But, hindsight is a fickle thing. 'Nuff said.

The ride down on Saturday was one of the best rides I have ever personally had, the countryside was spectacular, and I fully intend on doing the trip again (probably on my own though next time) to take it all in again. I sincerely hope everyone had as good a time as I did, and I'd be more than happy to lead any more group rides in the future. They say the best way to learn is by doing, don't they?

Oh, and on a side note, I've just been speaking to Nicole, who says she had a great time too, she asked me to say thank you to everyone for making her feel welcome, and she hopes to see you all again very soon! We're already planning on doing a trip up north (in the car) to visit a few of you, pending finances and time off from work of course. I'm gonna be busy as all hell now that the V8's are almost upon us again, as I'm supervising the track build and event management... But it's gonna be awesome! If anyone is coming down to the race, I'd love to catch up with you!!!

So yeah, all in all, the weekend away for me was really fun, I'd like to say a great big huge special THANK YOU to Maha and Mom for putting it all together in style again, so good to catch up with a whole bunch of awesome people, great to see Tony (you're still the single greatest inspiration in my whole life!), John and Janet (miss seeing you guys more often for sure! Definitely gonna come down and visit soon!), as well as Gremlin at the Oki-koki pub (you do seem to get around a lot, message me when you're in the Waikato again!), and look forward to seeing you all again real soon!

Take care, ride safe!

**Rehab** · 13th February 2012, 19:43

Originally Posted by Maha

Where have said that Scott did anything but a good job?

''I take those comments onboard...
I will lead the next ride (thats me and my group of pace setters)
I personally made a wrong call in letting someone lead a group that had never done that before...my fail on that.
And thats no judgement on the lead rider..theres more to leading a group ride than leading a group ride''.

I think that saying it was a wrong call to let him lead inferred that he shouldn't have been leading. At least that's how I read it. Saying that it's no judgement on him isn't the same as saying he did a good job, just that you don't judge him for doing a bad one.

Not having a go or anything silly, just leaping to Scott's defence in case anyone else (particularly him) assumed you weren't happy with his leading.

Now I read it again I see how I misunderstood what you were saying. But it has prompted a good discussion and a bit of food for thought for next time so all good eh?

**Maha** · 13th February 2012, 19:46

Everyone just shut the hell up as I am working on the next one...its well underway and will be two nighter with a 313km Saturday ride...
It will be a Friday/Saturday and Sunday.

**Phreak** · 13th February 2012, 19:50

If it's before the end of April, I won't be able to attend, due to work commitments - ie. the V8's...

**Grant`** · 13th February 2012, 19:52

Originally Posted by The Singing Chef

Yea but to get an idea of good lines I would say it helps, depending on who I am riding with I will follow their lines but usually take my own, especially on the ATNR where the pace is pretty quick and I know how my bike corners and what the limits are but if I am trying to learn from somebody (Mind you I usually do it on the racetrack) and they are at a comfortable pace I will tail them till I feel uncomfortable.

But definitely don't focus on the person, you should be looking at vanishing points, road conditions, camber, corner speed, distance between riders etc... maybe another way of putting it across is doing small lessons that people can work on, so for example, a page on the correct line for a corner and showing and describing when you should turn in etc... so that people can practise that with their own knowledge. I will make more intelligable posts when I am at home, finished now so that will be shortly.

You need to be very careful at how you explain your self to people as 'Follow my lines' doesn't tell someone how to go around the corner or give them the tools, they still need to be taking into account that they still need to ride there own ride and know the fundamentals of going around a corner and this is where Maha makes it very clear on saying that these rides are to provide a safe riding environment only, not mentoring people...

My biggest cock up in riding was being self taught and thinking the fact that I hadn't had an accident made me a good rider, I had people show me lines but I still wasn't negotiating a corner properly for anything they said to matter and realistically if your taking into account the entry point, apex and exit of your corner you can negotiate a corner from anywhere in your lane and/or change your line mid corner.