Ports of Auckland

[trustme]

The so called lefties, unions & labourites won't read it. The real world is an anathema to them.
Gotta remember, 300 wharfies end up unemployed with no income, no food on the table but Helen Kelly & her ilk will not go short of a feed while blaming everyone else for the consequences of the unions actions.

A successful business realises that it's most valuable asset is it's staff. A business that treats it's staff poorly will have low moral & high staff turnover , bad for business. Sure there are some bad businesses that treat their staff poorly but think on this. For years the POA was a closed shop , no one could get a job on the wharf without inside or family help, it just did not happen . Why do you think that was ?? Maybe just maybe the wharfies knew what a bloody good racket they were on & sought to protect it. Maybe that is still the case, unfortunately for them time is up.

[James Deuce]

Didn't see the Union do anything except request good faith negotiations.

Saw POA break Employment law, over and over. Anyone who keeps criminals on in a Strategic management role needs their heads read.

[trustme]

Didn't see the Union do anything except request good faith negotiations.

Saw POA break Employment law, over and over. Anyone who keeps criminals on in a Strategic management role needs their heads read.

Be specific , which law did they break. Who are the criminals you refer to , there has been no trial or conviction to create the so called criminal or does due process not apply in this case. The councils hands are tied whether they like it or not
Try reading the whole thread numb skull.

[James Deuce]

Be specific , which law did they break. Who are the criminals you refer to , there has been no trial or conviction to create the so called criminal or does due process not apply in this case. The councils hands are tied whether they like it or not
Try reading the whole thread numb skull.

The recent lock out was illegal. The Council's hands are NOT tied in the strategic sense. Numb Skull.

[Hinny]

' POA has a goal of increasing productivity , the unions can go along for the ride or fuck off ultimately the choice is theirs.'

I wonder where you got this idea from.
Is it not true the Ak. port had an impressive record?
'One of the best'; 'Award winning', I remember reading.

'...the medicine for the countries woes was given in the form of Rogernomics. The lesson was not learnt by the last labour govt who set about recreating the warm cosy 60's. A recession comes along & more unpleasant medicine is necessary'.

Yes, the last Labour govt. did a massive job to make us more well-off that too few people seem to appreciate.
Yes, we had the World Economic Crisis of 2007/2008 and due to the policies adopted by that Govt. NZ was able to weather the storm . It has been reported that we and Australia weathered it better than everyone else.
Labour were voted out of power with net zero debt.
Look at the situation now.
I do hope you are not suggesting tax cuts was a necessary medicine.
Before anyone cries the economic crisis is still with us, I say that argument is illusory. It certainly hasn't been for many countries with some experiencing record growth.
Our problems are of our own making. - Standard & Poors seemed to be of this opinion.

Warm and cosy sounds a lot better than getting kicked in the nuts to me.
Unfortunately too many masochists voted and we lost the first option and are being forced to live the second.
I, for one, don't like it.

[trustme]

The recent lock out was illegal. The Council's hands are NOT tied in the strategic sense. Numb Skull.

Your opinion on the lockout is precisely that , there has been no judgement that I am aware of . The council may not like what is happening but I suspect their hands are tied, they try to override the POA & who would ever want to try & run POA afterwards. The downside of interfering may very well outweigh the upside.
I am not be in total agreement with the POA attitude, they certainly seem intent on picking a fight, I suspect they will have some pretty high powered employment lawyers advising them. I would expect them to have their ducks in a row but stranger things have happened.

[trustme]

Yes, the last Labour govt. did a massive job to make us more well-off that too few people seem to appreciate.
Yes, we had the World Economic Crisis of 2007/2008 and due to the policies adopted by that Govt. NZ was able to weather the storm . It has been reported that we and Australia weathered it better than everyone else.
Labour were voted out of power with net zero debt.
Look at the situation now.
I do hope you are not suggesting tax cuts was a necessary medicine.
Before anyone cries the economic crisis is still with us, I say that argument is illusory. It certainly hasn't been for many countries with some experiencing record growth.
Our problems are of our own making. - Standard & Poors seemed to be of this opinion.

Warm and cosy sounds a lot better than getting kicked in the nuts to me.
Unfortunately too many masochists voted and we lost the first option and are being forced to live the second.
I, for one, don't like it.

Greece felt nice & cosy, wonder how their nuts feel now.

[Hinny]

Greece felt nice & cosy, wonder how their nuts feel now.

We were getting well looked after during extreme economic difficulties.
Now we are on a roll with record export receipts, greater tax take etc.etc. and we are going down the tubes flat out.


Typical Tory behaviour though isn't it?
Wacking each others dicks in a drawer.
Repeating failed policy programs, expecting a different outcome.

[avgas]

I wonder why that is.
Would you normally be privy to such a meeting ?

What issue would they be attempting to resolve talking with Maersk.

Loading/Unloading times from ships is what I have read in the international report that Maersk produced would be my guess. Not really a case of being privy as to doing research.
They also mentioned the fact that PoA doesn't have the capacity to continue to be such an important international port. Hence the concept of moving/expanding it into the harbor.
Perhaps I am assuming too much of the unions that that help create new work as well as defend the old stuff.

Who moved the cheese? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F)
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, I still think PoA management have lots to answer for.........but perhaps 2 wrongs don't make a right. Sooner the Unions realize this, the sooner the Port workers will have improved employment (perhaps elsewhere).

[avgas]

Managers. Confidence isn't all it's cracked up to be...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Never was. You might find this good watching. http://www.blindmanagement.blogspot....hings-can.html

[avgas]

I don't hate the unions but I sure as hell don't have much time for the organisers who are only to keen to take men out on strike. The organiser plays politics and still gets paid while the wives & kids at home are the ones who really pay the price. The families are the real losers in all this, the fat cat organisers cry crocodile tears.

Gold quote. Yep - and then they will have financial issues, leading to family violence..........sometimes you have a be a big boy and just support you family, suck it up, and work. Rather than pursue selfish pursuits.

Maybe just maybe the wharfies knew what a bloody good racket they were on & sought to protect it.

Nah I am guessing greed. Greed gets the best of most people (myself included). Previous generations were smarter.

Saw POA break Employment law, over and over. Anyone who keeps criminals on in a Strategic management role needs their heads read.

No argument from me. PoA management are just as much to blame in this scenario as the unions as far as I am concerned. Perhaps more when you consider the fact if they really wanted to do this properly they should have fired all non-compliant staff from day 1.
In fact when I consider the fact that the port should be under full operation right now I would put the full blame on the management. It was clear the union staff were not going to accept the new terms - they should have got the sack like anyone else in NZ. What makes them so special?
Would have created the same amount of legal BS as we have now......but the port would be under operation. Rather than the chest beating we have now.

[Winston001]

Should we not be adopting the policies of countries at the top of Standard of Living index?

Well I honestly don't know. The data is all over the place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita

The list is topped by small nations with oil, small nations with no obvious resources, followed by bigger countries. Its difficult to determine any one factor which makes one nation more successful than another.

For example Finland ranks well above NZ. A cold remote country with reindeer, millions of trees, and snow. Sweden much the same and ranked even higher. Gods preserve us, how the heck can that be?

Above both of those icons stands the USA - the bastion of free-enterprise and strongly against organised labour. On a purely logical basis that is the example to follow. Not that I would - but it answers your question.

[mashman]

For example Finland ranks well above NZ. A cold remote country with reindeer, millions of trees, and snow. Sweden much the same and ranked even higher. Gods preserve us, how the heck can that be?

Nokia and Volvo?

[trustme]

We were getting well looked after during extreme economic difficulties.
Now we are on a roll with record export receipts, greater tax take etc.etc. and we are going down the tubes flat out.


Typical Tory behaviour though isn't it?
Wacking each others dicks in a drawer.
Repeating failed policy programs, expecting a different outcome.

Labour avoided the real fallout of the economic difficulties, sure they hatched up the bank guarantee scheme. It was legislation on the hoof that meant the likes of Sth Canterbury finance had to be bailed out by the govt, I don't blame them for it , stuck in the headlights they reacted with immediate legislation that with time for more consideration would not have passed muster, desperate times mean desperate measures & all that.
My understanding is that the tax take is way down. In terms of NZ inc , Labour locked in a bunch of overheads like interest free student loans & working for families, Tax take falls & suddenly there is a huge deficit so those costs are no longer sustainable in the long term
Labour looked after us real well in the short term but hung us out to dry with the onset of a global downturn that was entirely forseeable
National under Muldoon did exactly the same.
In both instances it was not a political philosophy but a wish to retain power at all costs that was the real problem.

[Winston001]

Nokia and Volvo?

Yes I'd have said so too but apparently not any longer:

Volvo is still profitable but has no share price growth over 6 years.

Nokia - Nokia is a basketcase. Share price 4 years ago was $40 - today it is $5.30 (NYSE).

Saab went bankrupt in December 2011.


Even so, both Finland and Sweden have strong economies with damned-all valuable resources. They are very similar nations to NZ but we have a better climate, vast fishing grounds, strong year round tourism, and millions of hectares of temperate fertile farmland. On paper we are a better prospect.

Why the big (and it is big) difference?