Rule change in BSB - do we effectively have the same rule?

[steveyb]

What a load of poppycock Steve,FFS take the time to read your rulebook before going off halfcocked on the internet will ya.

a) race control and the marshalls had made radio contact,b)Waiting what full time ??the rules only state a maximum time limit,c) the rider failed to return to pitlane as required under a redflag in the gcr's,d)the rider failed too present his machine to officials that were waiting for him in parc ferme as stated in the gcr's and the supp regs for the series e)the rider elected too step off his machine on the grid with little regard for any fluids it may have leaked or for his fellow competitors f) the rider the proceeded to abuse the MNZ steward and other officials,But somehow it was mishandled by the officials ???????

a) I implied as much, that the rider (crash 2) had been told what to do.
b) I did say that I was not sure there was such a thing.
c) Yes, that's just what I said.
d) But did he know where said parc ferme was? Probably was told where.
e) Agreed, But, I only meant that the rider being presented with the steward in front of him on the grid like that might just have contributed to what happened, that's all. Maybe, and of course in hindsight, it could be dealt with in a different way that might avoid such an outcome.
f) I made no detailed comment about any of that and wish not to.
My only point was that maybe we can learn from it and deal with such things a bit differently and it might help, it might not help. But I did say that all this happend in minutes and decisions had to be taken, but there were things that could be done better. Isn't that the goal here? To learn? Fuck, if everytime a constructive suggestion is made that is then instantly rejected as blaming the officials then no one will say anything and we will regress. I think my observations were constructive.
Maybe if my post was too long it needed to be read a bit more clearly?

[CHOPPA]

Seems silly that if I was to crash I would have to have someone less qualified than myself and my team to check over a bike they have no knowledge on to tell me if it is safe

[CHOPPA]

As it stands at the moment, if someone crashes during a race and continues they are liable to be blagflagged or protested?

[jellywrestler]

Seems silly that if I was to crash I would have to have someone less qualified than myself and my team to check over a bike they have no knowledge on to tell me if it is safe

there's no way you can check your bike properly and hold it up out on the track at the same time, nobody can, simple as that.
that was the issue, said rider didn't return to the pits and let anyone check it over.

[jellywrestler]

e) Agreed, But, I only meant that the rider being presented with the steward in front of him on the grid like that might just have contributed to what happened, that's all.

I don't know many other sports in this world where self control on ones anger is more important than it is in motorcycle racing, the consequences are enormous if a competitor decides to push another around.
There is no room for spoilt brats anywhere in our sport, simple as that, if i was on the infeild I would have cut his helmet strap out straight away, and anyone elses that throws safety gear around like that.

[gixerracer]

What a load of poppycock Steve,FFS take the time to read your rulebook before going off halfcocked on the internet will ya.

a) race control and the marshalls had made radio contact,b)Waiting what full time ??the rules only state a maximum time limit,c) the rider failed to return to pitlane as required under a redflag in the gcr's,d)the rider failed too present his machine to officials that were waiting for him in parc ferme as stated in the gcr's and the supp regs for the series e)the rider elected too step off his machine on the grid with little regard for any fluids it may have leaked or for his fellow competitors f) the rider the proceeded to abuse the MNZ steward and other officials,But somehow it was mishandled by the officials ???????

Mr Horrabiilyess?
Why I agree with most of what you say I would like to know what is the protocol for when MNZ stewards abuse the riders as also happened at this meeting? I beleive there was a physical threat of violence suggested?

[Billy]

Mr Horrabiilyess?
Why I agree with most of what you say I would like to know what is the protocol for when MNZ stewards abuse the riders as also happened at this meeting? I beleive there was a physical threat of violence suggested?

Its the same rules for everybody,While it's way too late to lay a complaint for anything that took place at that meeting,It should be brought too the attention of MNZ at the earliest possible convenience and a complaint laid,That particular meeting would have been the ideal place as there were a number of board members including the President present.

[steveyb]

Mr Horrabiilyess?
Why I agree with most of what you say I would like to know what is the protocol for when MNZ stewards abuse the riders as also happened at this meeting? I beleive there was a physical threat of violence suggested?

My last comments on this, because I think it is important, but not that important:

As far as I could see, at the point of the exclusion the riders were under starters orders, or some such scenario. Do the rules allow for the steward, or anyone else, to jump onto the track at this point or any other point?

What words were actually used to effect the exclusion?

Agreed that the subsequent actions by the rider in question were not acceptable, but in slight defence; adrenaline was high, age was low, experience not so long etc etc. Perhaps being approached more directly and calmly and told that he had not followed instructions and would need to leave the race, or maybe he could have been directed to ride to the Parc Ferme to be checked and restarted from pit lane right then rather than being excluded. It is all hindsight of course.

As I said, it all happened very quickly and I am not blaming anyone but the rider for his actions, but maybe we can just learn from the situation for the future? I do think that a black flag held over the start grid would have been the most appropriate method to effect the exclusion.

[Billy]

As it stands at the moment, if someone crashes during a race and continues they are liable to be blagflagged or protested?

Correct and that will be made clearer in the rulechange that will pretty much copy word for word the BSB rule that has just been introduced.

The likely penalty for ignoring the ruling and remounting will be that the competitior will be blackflagged immediately and upon returning too pitlane will be excluded from the meeting.

[Billy]

My last comments on this, because I think it is important, but not that important:

As far as I could see, at the point of the exclusion the riders were under starters orders, or some such scenario. Do the rules allow for the steward, or anyone else, to jump onto the track at this point or any other point?

What words were actually used to effect the exclusion?

Agreed that the subsequent actions by the rider in question were not acceptable, but in slight defence; adrenaline was high, age was low, experience not so long etc etc. Perhaps being approached more directly and calmly and told that he had not followed instructions and would need to leave the race, or maybe he could have been directed to ride to the Parc Ferme to be checked and restarted from pit lane right then rather than being excluded. It is all hindsight of course.

As I said, it all happened very quickly and I am not blaming anyone but the rider for his actions, but maybe we can just learn from the situation for the future? I do think that a black flag held over the start grid would have been the most appropriate method to effect the exclusion.

Forget the excuses,

This competitor is in his 3rd season of competition and has attended the red bull rookies cup and EJC,If he hasn't bothered to get himself up to speed with the rules and supp regs then the system and his mentors have failed him !!!!

Put simply,Had he re entered pitlane and conformed,He would today be NZ 125 GP champion as there were such few numbers in the feild that had he finished last he still would have scored enough points too win.

[slowpoke]

there's no way you can check your bike properly and hold it up out on the track at the same time, nobody can, simple as that.

Yeah, totally agree. It may seem tough on the minor crashes but it's one of those scenarios where it's all ok........until it's not. And you don't wanna find out about any one of a hundred breakages that can happen at walking speed when you are back at racing speed.

Lets face it, if you did do even a half decent check of your bike trackside, it's gonna take a minute or two so your race is effectively over anyway. And what about your gear? Who crashes, checks the bike, removes their helmet to give it a once over and then rejoins? No-one.

To have any other rule but "crash, and you park it" enforced is just a nightmare. What are the alternatives? Crash under 30kph and you can remount straight away? Crash under 100kph and you gotta check it track side but can remount? What constitutes a "proper" check? Who assesses the speed? How do you define a "minor crash"? It's impossible, hence all crashes should be treated the same: tech check in the pits before you can rejoin the racing.

[Maido]

Forget the excuses,

This competitor is in his 3rd season of competition and has attended the red bull rookies cup and EJC,If he hasn't bothered to get himself up to speed with the rules and supp regs then the system and his mentors have failed him !!!!

Put simply,Had he re entered pitlane and conformed,He would today be NZ 125 GP champion as there were such few numbers in the feild that had he finished last he still would have scored enough points too win.

How could he re enter pit lane if he isn't allowed to get on his bike and ride back to the pits? Providing of course that he didn't get a ride back in the pick up vehicle?

not shit stirring, just another scenario to consider.

[Billy]

How could he re enter pit lane if he isn't allowed to get on his bike and ride back to the pits? Providing of course that he didn't get a ride back in the pick up vehicle?

not shit stirring, just another scenario to consider.

Good point,Except at this stage there is no rule preventing the competitor from re mounting and riding back to pit lane.

[CHOPPA]

there's no way you can check your bike properly and hold it up out on the track at the same time, nobody can, simple as that.
that was the issue, said rider didn't return to the pits and let anyone check it over.

I never said out on track... Im talking about scruitineering in general and when you have your bike check between races

Correct and that will be made clearer in the rulechange that will pretty much copy word for word the BSB rule that has just been introduced.

The likely penalty for ignoring the ruling and remounting will be that the competitior will be blackflagged immediately and upon returning too pitlane will be excluded from the meeting.

Wow that is a pretty big rule, not a bad idea but will need some fine tuning....

Seems counterintuitive to let a rider return to the pits at race speed to have there bike checked. I would have thought if the rule is designed for riders safety then the next corner is where he will find he has no brakes.... And if the rule is designed for fluid dropping, by the time the rider gets back to the pits he would have left oil everywhere and usually the rider would be aware of this before he got to the pits.

Also there is going to have to be an inspector ready and waiting in pit lane at all times

[jellywrestler]

And if the rule is designed for fluid dropping, by the time the rider gets back to the pits he would have left oil everywhere and usually the rider would be aware of this before he got to the pits.

won't matter to most people, we all know it's only ever Sidecars that leak oil eh?