France and Ireland pass hi-viz law

[speights_bud]

No, I do wear one. Becuase I firmly believe in the benifits thereof. As I do for my leather jacket, gloves and boots (and often pants). What I object to is having the government involved in any way in my choices about my personal safety. Where do you draw the line? The way we're going driving of any kind will be outlawed in favour of automated roads in the name of safety. This and other measure are going to take all pleasure from life and send the suicide rate through the roof. How safe is that?

i agree, i used to ride my 125 scoot in full gear because at 100km/h it seemed stupid not to.

I hate the nanny-ness of the Govt as much as the next person, but it's pretty obvious that a lot of people who aren't wearing the Gear don't think that they need it, if they needed it they would find a way to afford or obtain it. Riders who think this way won't invest in it unless they absolutely have to. We all bitch on here about people riding scooters and bikes with Jandals, no gloves, shorts t-shirts etc. I don't have the numbers but we are bitching about our ACC Levies going up, but what are we doing to reduce the costs of treating the injury's that are going to continue to happen unless change is made? remember the Hi-vis thing is only going to help being seen by other motorists, it won't stop people doing stupid things and crashing all on their own.

Again the Govt can get stuffed when it comes to interfering with our personal choices, but remember some people are too stupid or ignorant to think about looking after themselves.

[Maha]

You have to look closely at ..why the call for such a Law in the first place?
A Government of the day have not just pulled the legislation out of thin air.
Trick is, to be proactive rather than take on a foot stomping approach.
Being (held) accountable for how you perform on the road is a good place to start.

[MSTRS:Me]

And the law as described in the OP is for reflective materials, not actually for the fluoro fabrics (orange, yellow, etc.) that many people would consider hi-viz.

Yep. Hi-viz and Reflective = 2 different things.
Most hi-viz clothing seem to contain some reflective strips

Won´t be long before clothing manufacturers incorporate it into the jackets, won´t look too bad if its done right. Don´t know why its not done already - it doesn´t have to look too nerdy.

Lots of cordura gear has sewn-in reflective piping and has done for years. Have a look for dull grey (usually) stuff on such gear...that's the reflective stuff.

Xactly,after 40 years on 2 wheels i find the hi vis thing if they cant see a headlight a hi vis is of little use,motorcyclists already know how dangerous it is

Be aware...moves are afoot by NZTA to introduce daytime headlight use by ALL vehicles.
Then we'll only 'stand out' if we turn ours off and wear plain black. But that'll be illegal...

[jonbuoy]

I know most of it is a token gesture, not a 1 inch stripe.

[pete376403]

How about one banning bikes?

No, better to repeal all the "personal saftey laws" and get the government the fuck out of our lives.

Ain't gonna happen. Black boxes in cars mandatory in the US after 2015, expect the same thing to trickle down to bikes thereafter. One day we're going to look back on Hi-Viz requirements with a degree of nostalgia.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/ga...S-Cars-by-2015

[p.dath]

Ain't gonna happen. Black boxes in cars mandatory in the US after 2015, expect the same thing to trickle down to bikes thereafter. One day we're going to look back on Hi-Viz requirements with a degree of nostalgia.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/ga...S-Cars-by-2015

Wasn't this just a proposal? Has the bill actually been passed?

[Zedder]

No, I do wear one. Becuase I firmly believe in the benifits thereof. As I do for my leather jacket, gloves and boots (and often pants). What I object to is having the government involved in any way in my choices about my personal safety. Where do you draw the line? The way we're going driving of any kind will be outlawed in favour of automated roads in the name of safety. This and other measure are going to take all pleasure from life and send the suicide rate through the roof. How safe is that?

I'm all for being safe and accountable etc but it's the "drawing of the line" that's a problem.

[pete376403]

Wasn't this just a proposal? Has the bill actually been passed?

"The proposed legislation, has been given the title of 'Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act' and is expected to be passed by the Republican-controlled House shortly."

Lobbyists for insurance companies will be doing their utmost (ie bribes will be paid) to ensure this goes through.

At one time this (black box type technology) wouldn't be viable for cars, but with the degree of electronic control in cars now it's going to be pretty easy, eg. I've got a 2003 Honda Accord, the user guide for just the the navigation system is well over a hundred pages (and thats just the stuff they want the owners to know about).
Once established in cars then the higher end bikes will be made to follow, then trickle down will take its inevitable path.

Your speeding fine and demerits will be in the mail before you get home from the ride. The increase in insurance premium will follow shortly after.

[AllanB]

In post quake ChCh there is so much hi-vis around it has lost all affect.


I don't wear it. Frankly modern cars are so well insulated and full of comfort features and things to twiddle with while driving it is amazing that anyone gets anywhere without a accident.

What percentage of motorcycle accidents do not involve another vehicle? Hi-vis will could be helpful finding the rider on the side of the road in these cases.....

[swbarnett]

We all bitch on here about people riding scooters and bikes with Jandals, no gloves, shorts t-shirts etc.

I used to. Since I've been debating aspects of personal responsibility I've come to realise that it's their choice. It doesn't bother me like it used to and I'm prepared to pay my fair share of any increased ACC costs (if there are any) to protect the individual's right to be themselves.

the Hi-vis thing is only going to help being seen by other motorists,

That's assuming it actually works. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest it doesn't.

it won't stop people doing stupid things and crashing all on their own.

Agreed. This is a different argument entirely.

Again the Govt can get stuffed when it comes to interfering with our personal choices, but remember some people are too stupid or ignorant to think about looking after themselves.

Stupidity is part of being human. ALL of us have done stupid things at times (and still do). The phrase "too stupid or ignorant to think about looking after themselves." could apply to any one of us depending on who's saying it. To a lot of non-bikers it applies to every biker by definition.

All judgements of stupidity are relative to one's own stupidity. Because of this no-one has the right to pass judgement on another because they percieve the other's level of stupidity unacceptable. This leads logically to the fact that no government has the right to enforce any level of personal safety.

Ain't gonna happen. Black boxes in cars mandatory in the US after 2015, expect the same thing to trickle down to bikes thereafter. One day we're going to look back on Hi-Viz requirements with a degree of nostalgia.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/ga...S-Cars-by-2015

Which is why now is the time to stand up and say ENOUGH!

You have to look closely at ..why the call for such a Law in the first place?

I think it's just the next step of the slippery slope.

A Government of the day have not just pulled the legislation out of thin air.

In a way that's probably what happened. Some politician has a SMIDSY and blames the biker for not being "visible enough" instead of admitting they weren't looking. Then they find a number of dubious studies that show Hi-Vis works in reducing accidents (even though it's only a statistical correlation, not a proven causation). Next thing you find is that the bandwagon is well and truly rolling.

Trick is, to be proactive rather than take on a foot stomping approach.

I think both are called for. Yes, "we" as a group need to take more responsibility for our own safety. At the same time we need to demand that we be allowed to do exactly that.

Being (held) accountable for how you perform on the road is a good place to start.

I think a good size skin graft is a pretty good way of being held accountable. Way better than any financial or license penaltys.

[Conquiztador]

Re black boxes:
A while ago I watched Knight Rider on TV. He was following a group of bikies in his car KIT. He asked the car to turn off the bikes, so the car sent a "signal" through the power lines in the power-poles and all bikes stopped. Apart from one. He asked KIT why the Leader of the gang did not stop. The answer (in a robotic voice): "The bike is a 1976 Harley Davidson Showelhead. It has no electronics". So the solution to avoiding having a black box is clear: Don't buy a new bike...

Re Reflex strips:
When young and in Finland the sun would get up 10am and settle at 2pm in middle of winter. We would go to school and come home from school in the dark using the road on our bikes or walking. We used to have a square reflex that was fitted with a safety pin that we took out from our pockets when on the road. They only worked in the dark and when car lights were on. To have reflex strips on the bikes and/or the gear so a biker can be seen at night time seems strange as we all have our lights on. If someone at night time can not see our lights what good is any reflex stuff? And they do not really work daytime.

Re Day Glow Gear:
This is the yellow/orange/green gear that police and road workers (and others these days) wear when on the roads so that drivers will see them and they will hopefully avoid being run over. The way I read the compulsory 150 square cm patches in France and Ireland is that this is NOT about day glow, but about the above mentioned reflex stuff. Night time the day glow is useless. Day time it is debatable if it works on a bike. On a sports bike it can not be seen from the front. And if a backpack is used then not from the rear either. Considering that bikes now have compulsory lights on there is no "need" for dayglow from the front. (If someone can not see the headlights, then no dayglow will make any difference). From behind perhaps. But be realistic, apart from scooters and some small commuter bikes (and all these are used in city traffic at 50-70Km/h anyhow) no car has any reason to worry about a bike that is at the front of them. Very few bikers stay there...
So then we have the day glow advantages from the side. This would only apply when someone pulls out from a side road/in a crossing. On a main road the bike will travel at 80 - 100km/h (or above...). That is a split second to pass a driveway. So for the day glow to stop any accidents caused by someone pulling out from their driveway the rider would have to be almost stationery for the driver to see the dayglow. And that is not gonna happen. And the only time there will be an accident is if the bike is approaching the crossing/driveway, as when the bike is moving away from there nothing will happen. And when the bike is coming towards the driveway/crossing the headlights are on...

So without putting on my FTW T-shirt re all this crap, I can honestly not see what use all this will have apart from making the gummint and police think they have done something. When in fact the only thing they have achieved is another revenue gathering channel. But perhaps that is the plan all along???

[MSTRS:Me]

...a whole lot of utter sense...
When in fact the only thing they have achieved is another revenue gathering channel. But perhaps that is the plan all along???

Nah, they wouldn't do that, would they? Surely not...

[Maha]

I think both are called for. Yes, "we" as a group need to take more responsibility for our own safety. At the same time we need to demand that we be allowed to do exactly that.

Prove...would be a more apt word Stephen...demand has been tried before, with resounding failure.

[wharekura]

i have a cruiser (albeit a hyo250) and the thought of hiviz is not intriguing. Then I thought what will all the cool fellas in bikey gangs going to do with their gang patches? Imagine - Mongrel mob with hiz viz over their patches - Sacrilege! Or maybe have the bulldog part reflective?

[rickstv]

Someone somewhere thought that 150sq mm hi viz pennants on posty bikes was a good idea.

God forbid they think it's a good idea for us.