What Price a Life?

[mashman]

*So you don't want any of us who have material wealth to have any?

Like the oh so successful communism??

Listen, there will always haves and have nots.

And those lazy-arse have nots who can't be buggered living the way they are and want stuff will revert to taking it anyway.

THEY are the worst - they want material things - but don't want to make the effort to get them 'properly'.

So they leech off the rest of us.

Sharia law in relation to the above social problem doesn't sound so bad....

*('cos we cause the 'problem'???)

is that all you've got? Communism? These are not the droids you're looking for ... I guess ya can't teach old dogs, or cats for that matter new tricks after all. If you're happy with chasing these guys, my hat off to ya for doing that, then fine. I'd rather change the way we live to prevent it entirely. Entirely your choice of course .

[mashman]

Their life?

It's called oxygen

I've always said that I'm comfortable with the return of the death penalty ... however I doubt that that would change a damn thing. Where crims may get away with a threat these days i.e. snitch and I'll kill you, they may as well just kill the person and not have to worry about being identified. Granted that's just 1 angle, but we had the death penalty once and people still stole etc...

[scumdog]

Granted that's just 1 angle, but we had the death penalty once and people still stole etc...

Not after they were killed though...

[scumdog]

is that all you've got? Communism? These are not the droids you're looking for ... I guess ya can't teach old dogs, or cats for that matter new tricks after all. If you're happy with chasing these guys, my hat off to ya for doing that, then fine. I'd rather change the way we live to prevent it entirely. Entirely your choice of course .

OK, so now's your chance - how do YOU think we could change the way we live to prevent/end muggings, killings, robberies etc??

After all, I'm only the 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' for our imperfect society.

[tigertim20]

I've always said that I'm comfortable with the return of the death penalty ... however I doubt that that would change a damn thing. Where crims may get away with a threat these days i.e. snitch and I'll kill you, they may as well just kill the person and not have to worry about being identified. Granted that's just 1 angle, but we had the death penalty once and people still stole etc...

Ok, you are so full of bright ideas around how we can end crime in NZ, how about giving us a fully detailed run down on a societal model you would like to implement in NZ - and I dont mean post a few links or mention a few social theories, I mean, give us a well reasoned, properly supported example of what you would change, why you would change it, and how you would implement it, along with evidence to show that these changes would have the desired impact.

Or do you lack the ability to suggest anything more than throw out a few basic social theories with little to no actual evidence that it will change?

[SMOKEU]

FFS aren't you the antagonistic racist little yarpie fuck stain. The irony is astounding

Did you know that 90% of yarpies suck dick and that only 30% of you are proper females?

I'm not racist, I'm a realist. I'm not stupid enough to believe all the politically correct government propoganda that is spewed out to the masses.

[ellipsis]

My question is - what can we do to stop this rot, turn things around or even show solidarity...

...a multitude of ginga's with pointy sticks would be an effective stop gap measure in the interim...

[tigertim20]

I'm not racist, I'm a realist. I'm not stupid enough to believe all the politically correct government propoganda that is spewed out to the masses.

Ooooooooh, so you're an independent thinking intellectual?

[mashman]

Not after they were killed though...

You still gotta catchem first though... aaaaand get them through a bleeding heart system full of doo goody gooders... aaaaaand offer a punishment that's a deterrent

OK, so now's your chance - how do YOU think we could change the way we live to prevent/end muggings, killings, robberies etc??

After all, I'm only the 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' for our imperfect society.

Ok, you are so full of bright ideas around how we can end crime in NZ, how about giving us a fully detailed run down on a societal model you would like to implement in NZ - and I dont mean post a few links or mention a few social theories, I mean, give us a well reasoned, properly supported example of what you would change, why you would change it, and how you would implement it, along with evidence to show that these changes would have the desired impact.

Or do you lack the ability to suggest anything more than throw out a few basic social theories with little to no actual evidence that it will change?

Once again. Let's take this crime as a for instance. Could it have been prevented. The simple answer is yes. Why did they commit the initial crime? To get money. Someone walks in and decides not to give them the money without a fight, or interrupts them or whatever happened and ends up dead. Simple fact: if there were no money involved the crime wouldn't have happened... pretty safe to say the same thing in regards to every single financial crime that's committed in NZ. Sure the person may well be a "lazy scumbag" (maybe not), but let's say they will be. If the XBox or drugs or booze or cigs or clothes or whatever they needed the money for were free there would be 1 less dead person. There's no getting around that fact. There's no bleeding heart there there young man crap, just a stoned, pissed happy xbxo playing lazy scumbag safely tucked up in doors doing no damage to anyone or anyone's stuff... it removes the "temptation" entirely. With any luck the "lazy scumbag" will OD or kill themselves in any number of ways that won't take someone else out. Where money isn't there as a motivation, then the motives of the person will change by default... maybe for the better.

@lack of ability must tout social theory to support argument etc... in fact ... other than being an absolutely futile pursuit (one size fitting all) some measure of rules and regs will need to be applied and therefore so must some form of social theory or group of theories to allow people to get a handle on what where when why we live the way we do (fuckin hilarious that "one" is required)... It's inevitable Mr Anderson, or at least would be if you decided to remove money from the equation. What form of social convention that takes is anyone's guess. I offer 1 variation of how it could be done... but it most definitely will not happen where money is the motivation and people are the secondary concern.

[Number One]

Bullshit. Honesty isn't a function of wealth or status.

What a load of sanctimonious twaddle.

Could I suggest that this is a socio-economic issue rather than a racial one. Don't rest your case just yet.

You really are a patient man aren't ya? I admire how measured you are in this place. I'd be a terrible mod!

Regarding 'violent criminals' I'm thinking of starting a posse - I DO believe if the people were empowered to do more to proven scumbags at least a few of them would think twice...surely?

They get in the system and it treats them as victims. I do believe they have very likely been or are victims and thats sad. Really its tragic and aside from the obvious and immediate trauma of the actual offense to the victims, there are always innocent other families impacted and shifted - but that's what gets me....we put these people away and in almost every case we let them out, back to do it all again.

Personally after more experiences and observations during my life and times (which isn't even that significant yet at 34) I have come to wonder why we are so quick to terminate animals such as dogs that have attacked (even though we know that many times the dog shouldn't actually be blamed), and we eliminate them pretty quickly for fear of the risk they provide...so why is it that with people - who apparently have much more smarts and so in turn 'apparently' better impulse etc control - we give them a wee rest inside. They are regimented to a state they find comfort purpose and routine in and then we let them out again with their names kept secret. No one knows who they have living next door at times. Victims are silenced because its uncomfortable and everyone waits to see when the next murder, rape, stabbing, pedo will happen and who it is that either hurts them or someone they love.

Assisted euthanasia should be legalized , but then I'm bitter and believe that actually innocent people should be protected from known risks. Especially those that have shown they don't give a shit for others they are in my opinion far more dangerous than a dog who has bitten someone.

As for the bus thing. They wud be opportunistic kids. A bus tin...aim higher kids and now you've killed someone, creeps. Hope they catch them and get some of that excellent rehab we've seen the likes of young Bailey K get...yeah that will learn em! Not.

Rant end. Prolley doesn't make any sense on iPod - small screen getting faster at touch typing and canceling autocorrect but bugger me pain in arse!



Fuckety fuck fuck day
Peace

[Madness]

I'm thinking of starting a posse

It's been done already. http://youtu.be/MnF2XEO64d0

[Number One]

It's been done already. http://youtu.be/MnF2XEO64d0

Yeaaaaaah boi!

Went to school with some of the people in that vid. Hard case as flashback!

Actually I was thinking more Sons of Anarchy...meets pussycat dolls


Lol no I actually wasn't but it sounded funny in my head.
Urgh

[scumdog]

If the XBox or drugs or booze or cigs or clothes or whatever they needed the money for were free there would be 1 less dead person. There's no getting around that fact. There's no bleeding heart there there young man crap, just a stoned, pissed happy xbxo playing lazy scumbag safely tucked up in doors doing no damage to anyone or anyone's stuff... it removes the "temptation" entirely. With any luck the "lazy scumbag" will OD or kill themselves in any number of ways that won't take someone else out. Where money isn't there as a motivation, then the motives of the person will change by default... maybe for the better.

If X-box,cigs etc were free?

Who would 'pay' for them to made?

And what with?

And why should somebody else take the X-box etc just because they wanted to - and without making any effort to 'earn' them?

And what happens when somebody wants to take something that sombody else alrady has in their possesion?

Take money out of the equation and replace it with goods and nothing's changed.

Spare me days...

[tigertim20]

Once again. Let's take this crime as a for instance. Could it have been prevented. The simple answer is yes. Why did they commit the initial crime? To get money. Someone walks in and decides not to give them the money without a fight, or interrupts them or whatever happened and ends up dead.
WOW!! you're a psychic too? who said their was a refusal to give the money? thats an assumption - making your argument invalid
Simple fact: if there were no money involved the crime wouldn't have happened... Really? this kind of thing happens all the time - someone getting bashed for a cell phone, wallet, credit card, ipod laptop, or their vehicle - the victim doesnt always die, but I doubt killing was the intention of the offender
pretty safe to say the same thing in regards to every single financial crime that's committed in NZ. Sure the person may well be a "lazy scumbag" (maybe not), but let's say they will be. If the XBox or drugs or booze or cigs or clothes or whatever they needed the money for were free there would be 1 less dead person. There's no getting around that fact. There's no bleeding heart there there young man crap, just a stoned, pissed happy xbxo playing lazy scumbag safely tucked up in doors doing no damage to anyone or anyone's stuff... it removes the "temptation" entirely. With any luck the "lazy scumbag" will OD or kill themselves in any number of ways that won't take someone else out. Where money isn't there as a motivation, then the motives of the person will change by default... maybe for the better.
Bullshit. its human nature to want things you see, So you give them an xbox for free, and they will want more, and more and more.
Sooner or later the same person will be walking down the street, and see someone with a nice bicycle, and say, fuck yeah, Id like to have that bike, so they use stand over tactics, and or violence to get it.
there will ALWAYS be haves, and have nots, even if money is removed from the equation, goods are just as desirable.
And if you create a system where everything is free, human greed will have the inevitable result of some people still going out and taking other people's stuff because they WANT more. the only result here, is that the people who used to be 'have nots' have become the 'haves' because they go about taking things by force - and suggesting that we not put up a fight, and hand over our stuff without argument would only exacerbate that fact.
:.

........................................

[mashman]

If X-box,cigs etc were free?

Context = No money.... ergo free to pick one up off the shelves if there is one available.

Who would 'pay' for them to made?

And what with?

You're right. No one would do anything if they weren't being paid for it.

And why should somebody else take the X-box etc just because they wanted to - and without making any effort to 'earn' them?

And what happens when somebody wants to take something that sombody else alrady has in their possesion?

The same as happens now, especially when they could go to the shop and just get it for free. When I haven't been using things I happily share. I know it's a radical concept, but it could just catch on... as well as negate the need for someone to thieve.

Take money out of the equation and replace it with goods and nothing's changed.

And you can pick those goods up off the shelf for free if you want, so no need to take anything of anyone else i.e. thieve. Is the free thing sinking in yet? or are you still expecting people you know absolutely nothing about to earn the right to have stuff? and where do you draw the line as to how much they have earned before they deserve something. Such an archaic attitude.

Spare me days...

Tell me bout it.