Beneficiary contraception plan 'intrusive'

[FJRider]

Its New Zealand,nobody has to take responsibility for there actions as theres an army of otherwise unemployable do gooders to pick up the pieces combined with an Emu like stance on the money tree...

But the army of those wanting to pay for it ... is getting smaller ...

[98tls]

But the army of those wanting to pay for it ... is getting smaller ...

Thats typical though mate,by the time enough have had enough and say get fucked its to late.

[SMOKEU]

Haven't read through the thread fully. but i read somewhere in the article saying the contraception is giving people choice to have kids or not.

Isn't it great? people don't 'choose' to have sex anymore, its 'gonna happen' so how do we fix the result? It's a bit Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff if you ask me. Promoting another generation of people to not take responsibility for their actions.

After all they could you know, think about what the result could be and not have sex?...

Also there are contraceptive methods that work very well that are free and many couples have been using it for years with success

Why should i pay for people who don't take responsibility for the potential results of their actions?

Stop speaking sense, this is KB after all.

[Genestho]

Haven't read through the thread fully. but i read somewhere in the article saying the contraception is giving people choice to have kids or not.

Isn't it great? people don't 'choose' to have sex anymore, its 'gonna happen' so how do we fix the result? It's a bit Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff if you ask me. Promoting another generation of people to not take responsibility for their actions.

After all they could you know, think about what the result could be and not have sex?...

Also there are contraceptive methods that work very well that are free and many couples have been using it for years with success

Why should i pay for people who don't take responsibility for the potential results of their actions?

Um, I'd have thought contraception is the ambulance at the top of the cliff? You know, it prevents babies? You want to rock into peoples homes and tell them not to have sex now? Oh the outrage

It all seems a bit one sided anyway, I don't hear of men raising their kids on the dpb and having contraception proposed, why should women bare the brunt for the males part in lacking responsibility? I know waaaay too many ladies who've been dumped by Mr "he who doesn't wish be around for his children anymore." Like it's becoming an epidemic.

SO!! I propose free vasectomies too, and let the women dumped on the benefit, do the procedure. I reckon that would sort out any of the lacking male responsibility issues.

Stop speaking sense, this is KB after all.

Oh, oh god

[scumdog]

I dunno - I think its reasonable. Responsible people would try to avoid having families until they can support one and a responsible society recognizes that accidents happen and will support people should that occur. Most people on benefits struggle and I think many people will take advantage of this offer.

I'm with Paul.

Why should I pay for leeching drongo slappers to keep having kids, often by different non-paying fathers???

[jrandom]

Why should i pay for people who don't take responsibility for the potential results of their actions?

Because you'll be paying one way or another, and this option is orders of magnitude cheaper than letting them breed.

Unless you prefer a society entirely without social welfare. But be careful what you wish for.

[FJRider]

I'm with Paul.

Why should I pay for leeching drongo slappers to keep having kids, often by different non-paying fathers???

It's not so much the non paying fathers ... most wont know or admit or CARE who the father is ...

[98tls]

I'm with Paul.

Why should I pay for leeching drongo slappers to keep having kids, often by different non-paying fathers???

Because Helen Clarke decided you should,no wonder we have constant flotsam washing up on our shores,why not eh its all laid on.

[Howie]

Why not simply get rid of the ridiculous working for families rubbish,might stem the flow somewhat not to mention put a halt on taxpayers money being used to pay off cars etc.

Interesting idea, but was has it got to do with beneficiaries getting free contraception? What would you propose instead, do we raise the mimimin wage to a level that would actually enable a Single parent to live a basic lifestyle?

If you can't feed em, don't breed em.....

Things change as you move through life. I ended up as a single parent with 2 kids. Interestingly enough I managed to keep working due to having skills that were in high demand in my chosen career, so got a bit of flexability in the way I managed my hours.

In the days before working for families, I worked out that by the time I took into account the before, and after school care I was paying for I was working for about $20 a week if I did not work overtime. Oh and yes I was earning above the NZ average wage at the time. My choice was to keep working, but it could just as easily been to go on the DPB and do a few cash under the table job's and spend more time with the kids.

Why should I pay for leeching drongo slappers to keep having kids, often by different non-paying fathers???

Interestingly you might be surprised at the number of single parent families where the Father is the the main care giver, from memory it was running at about 1 in five to 1 in 6 when I last looked a few years ago.

Child support is a whole different subject, and really needs an overhaul. do you know that the minimum payment is just over seventy dollars per month, if the paying parent is on a benefit, or a low wage.



The best answer would be to make contraception of the types proposed either free or heavily subsidised for everyone.

[Tigadee]

Isn't it great? people don't 'choose' to have sex anymore, its 'gonna happen' so how do we fix the result? It's a bit Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff if you ask me. Promoting another generation of people to not take responsibility for their actions.

After all they could you know, think about what the result could be and not have sex?...

Firstly, a group of people fitting the profile for the assisted contraception already don't take responsibility for their actions, and more than likely are lost to any action you may want to take to help them 'see the light'. I doubt the whole generation of people - this one or later - will degenerate into one of total carnal chaos. (I think we went through that with the Woodstock era and there are still people out there with a moral compass who do still take responsibility for their actions, etc. just as there are those who don't.)

This proposed action by Gov't at least wants to tip the scales so that society isn't shackled by those who do not benefit society [but instead collect benefits without contributing or are unable to contribute]. No one is saying throw them to the lions, put them into concentration camps, just helping them to be a little more active in being restrained and even responsible.

So unless the moral pendulum of society swings the other way where everyone suddenly becomes very puritan and abstains, and considers others before themselves, measures such as what's proposed is more realistic, and sadly more effective than Civics classes or such.

Also there are contraceptive methods that work very well that are free and many couples have been using it for years with success

The key word is using them, isn't it? This plan could at least encourage them - even nudge them - to be pro-active in 'protecting' themselves, because if it involves some sort of long-term contraceptive that is low-maintenance - doesn't require a lot of attention, then the response may be very enthusiastic and positive.

Too many males would excuse themselves from using rubbers because 'it doesn't feel the same', blah, blah, blah, and may walk away as soon as they find out the woman is preggers. So getting the women to be pro-active is the key.

True, education is the key to turning those attitudes around, but that's been said but hardly done in the past and if has been then obviously not been working, so something new is better than the same old, same old...

Why should i pay for people who don't take responsibility for the potential results of their actions?

You already do anyway, and nothing's changed. We're still left with a growing demographic group who continue to live and struggle in poverty, wouldn't it be nice to try a different approach, something that may work to lift them out of the situations either they created intentionally or unintentionally for themselves? Or perhaps never enough can be done to helps those now, but at least slow down the vicious cycle... Never know till we try, aye?

Otherwise, this cycle will just continue growing and spiraling down, and people like you and me continue paying for people who don't take responsibility for their actions. Do we want to wait till this minority becomes a majority?

If you can't feed em, don't breed em.....

Crudely put but very, very true.

[FJRider]

Perhaps a requirement before further financial assistance from WINZ ... the fathers name must be (on the birth certificate) in the system as the father ... and paying child support ... MIGHT make a difference to the numbers making use of the free "help" ...

[98tls]

Interesting idea, but was has it got to do with beneficiaries getting free contraception? What would you propose instead, do we raise the mimimin wage to a level that would actually enable a Single parent to live a basic lifestyle?







The best answer would be to make contraception of the types proposed either free or heavily subsidised for everyone.

Jesus H,"the best answer" for many would be keep your fucking legs closed until your ready and able to accept the consequences of not doing so surely its not that hard,and if it is indeed to hard and beyond there capability then surely something as complicated as using contraception free or not will be way beyond them.

[porky]

I'm with Paul.

Why should I pay for leeching drongo slappers to keep having kids, often by different non-paying fathers???

Well thats Paula Bennett out of a job.

[Tigadee]

BTW, how is offering free contraceptives instead of subsidised contraceptives 'intrusive'? It's just one small step in what is already being done. Sue Bradford is just being silly!

And while not a mircale cure for all economic ills for sure, it can still in the long run help take burdens off the welfare system, the health system, the housing system, the education system, CYFS, NGOs, police, courts, etc., and most importantly, taxpayers!

[speights_bud]

Jesus H,"the best answer" for many would be keep your fucking legs closed until your ready and able to accept the consequences of not doing so surely its not that hard,and if it is indeed to hard and beyond there capability then surely something as complicated as using contraception free or not will be way beyond them.

What he said,

Oh how the world Changed when the contraceptive Pill was made readily available, no more responsibility.