The firearm thread

**Scuba_Steve** · 10th May 2012, 19:58

Originally Posted by Akzle

wrong. they're mentioned in the arms act but not classed as firearms.

wow way to go back awhile. But FYI paintball & airsoft ARE firearms under law, else I'd have me a standard speedball marker with all the ramping & auto options already

**Mr Merde** · 11th May 2012, 10:52

It is strange what can be considered a firearm.

Just imagine this scenario...

You set out to rob a bank.

You are at the tellers counter and pass a note across saying "give me the money or I will shoot"

The teller looks at you and sees you have one of your hands in a pocket and there is a bulge showimg.

The teller assumes you have a firearm but in reality you are holding a toothbrush in your hand.

The police come and you are charged with presenting a firearm and armed robbery.

Why? Because that law states that "it is or appears to be" a firearm, therefore it is armed robbery.

A toothbrush in this case is a firearm.

Chris

**Akzle** · 11th May 2012, 11:25

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

wow way to go back awhile. But FYI paintball & airsoft ARE firearms under law, else I'd have me a standard speedball marker with all the ramping & auto options already

noooope. you're still wrong.
it's the firing mechanism in this case that classes it as a restricted weapon.(not a firearm)

F Your I, you can buy,import and fit ramping boards, just don't get caught without a C cat. and most fields, if they find out, will kick/ban you. i ran an automatic for years, but it was a shyte board so I could actually fire faster on semi.
my mate put a ramping in is angel, it fired ropes, call hit and there's still another 10 balls gonna hit you.
so here's my proof: (where's yours?)

Arms Act Sec 2(c) (airgunnot firearm) any weapon from which, by the use of gas or compressed air (and not by force of explosive), any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile can be discharged
and Sec 4 of the Arms (Restricted Weapons and Specially Dangerous Airguns) Order 1984 says: "Machine carbines or guns, submachine carbines or guns, and machine pistols, of any kind whatsoever, including those operated by gas or compressed air and including all other firearms capable of full automatic fire."

and senhõr merde, the term/clause you are probably mis-interpreting is "imitation firearm" being that it is illegal to carry, possess, present or discharge one in or near a public place so as may cause danger to persons, property or that may frighten or annoy any member of the public without sufficient reason.

what the tooth-brush-bandit would probably be charged with would be threatening/menacing behaviour under the crimes act as well as aggravated burglary etc.
i would highly doubt he'd be charged with a firearms offence.
but feel free to troll nzlii.org for some case law to back up your assertion.

**Fast Eddie** · 12th May 2012, 12:10

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Makes perfect sense. You have just described pinfire.

A small pin sticks out of on side. When the hammer strikes it it goes inside the case and strikes the primer. This in turn ignites the powder and drives the projectile out the barrel.

A lot of European guns of the 19th century were pinfire ( mostly France and Belgium). They ranged in size from these 2mm rounds to 15 mm rounds. The southern states of America were a big user of pinfire handguns in the US civil war as they shipped a lot of their supplies from Europe.

I have recently found a site the sells reloading equipment for pinfire rounds. Not this little one but for the larger rounds.

Glad I could help.

Chris

many thanks again Chris. you have been very helpful. Going to try order some of those rounds soon. Will let you know when/if they arrive hehe.

cheers

**Winston001** · 20th May 2012, 00:12

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

It is strange what can be considered a firearm.

Just imagine this scenario...

You set out to rob a bank.

You are at the tellers counter and pass a note across saying "give me the money or I will shoot"

The teller looks at you and sees you have one of your hands in a pocket and there is a bulge showimg.

The teller assumes you have a firearm but in reality you are holding a toothbrush in your hand.

The police come and you are charged with presenting a firearm and armed robbery.

Why? Because that law states that "it is or appears to be" a firearm, therefore it is armed robbery.

A toothbrush in this case is a firearm.

Chris

Nup.

The law says that if you indicate or imply that you have a firearm and members of the public believe you, then you are committing an armed robbery. That's why pointing a water pistol can lead to an arms charge.

It doesn't matter that it's a toothbrush. If the law were otherwise the teller would have to call your bluff and get shot just to prove you had a real gun - which is not in the public interest.

Apart from that, the toothbrush robber could successfully defend the charge but will certainly be convicted of robbery with menaces anyway.

The central point is the law does not construct a gun out of a toothbrush. The criminal does that all by himself.

**sAsLEX** · 20th May 2012, 12:15

Originally Posted by Winston001

Nup.

The law says that if you indicate or imply that you have a firearm and members of the public believe you, then you are committing an armed robbery. That's why pointing a water pistol can lead to an arms charge.

It doesn't matter that it's a toothbrush. If the law were otherwise the teller would have to call your bluff and get shot just to prove you had a real gun - which is not in the public interest.

Apart from that, the toothbrush robber could successfully defend the charge but will certainly be convicted of robbery with menaces anyway.

The central point is the law does not construct a gun out of a toothbrush. The criminal does that all by himself.

Did you read what you quoted?

**Mr Merde** · 20th May 2012, 19:53

Ever wonder why some people just seem to drift away from KB.

One day they are there fully interacting the next they have started just popping in occasionally and finally they just disappear.

**The Pastor** · 21st May 2012, 10:04

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Ever wonder why some people just seem to drift away from KB.

One day they are there fully interacting the next they have started just popping in occasionally and finally they just disappear.

maybe they are practising magicians?

**Mr Merde** · 21st May 2012, 11:34

So how did I spend the weekend?

100 rounds of 38-55 from my Marlin 336 CB and its MVA rear post sight.

Grouping 2" at 100 yards and making tin cans dance.

Bit more work to do to get the ragged hole we all lust after ;-)

50 rounds of 32-40 Black Powder (the Holy Black). Aftwer slugging the barrel I found the bore to be .323. I previously was loading .321 bullets. Bought a new mould castin .324 bullets. Gone from an 18" group at 100 meters to a 3" group at 100 meters. More work to do on my reloads but I have mede a start.

Both Marlins behaved flawlessly.\

Guns put away and with 80% of a large bottle of rum shared between the three of I I was taken home in a very merry state. Good shooting, good company, lots of swapping BS. Happier than I have been for a long time.

Chris

**The Pastor** · 21st May 2012, 14:13

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

So how did I spend the weekend?

100 rounds of 38-55 from my Marlin 336 CB and its MVA rear post sight.

Grouping 2" at 100 yards and making tin cans dance.

Bit more work to do to get the ragged hole we all lust after ;-)

50 rounds of 32-40 Black Powder (the Holy Black). Aftwer slugging the barrel I found the bore to be .323. I previously was loading .321 bullets. Bought a new mould castin .324 bullets. Gone from an 18" group at 100 meters to a 3" group at 100 meters. More work to do on my reloads but I have mede a start.

Both Marlins behaved flawlessly.\

Guns put away and with 80% of a large bottle of rum shared between the three of I I was taken home in a very merry state. Good shooting, good company, lots of swapping BS. Happier than I have been for a long time.

Chris

Sounds like you had a great weekend

**Mr Merde** · 21st May 2012, 14:21

The past 18 months has been a real bugger and I have hardly burnt any powder.

Needed to get out and have some fun.

I have been pretty much on the wagon for the past year. A session on the rhum was enjoyable. Sharron says I am a "happy" drunk.

Application ready for my collectors licence. References sorted. just gotta make payment and wait.

Anyone interested in a Weatherby Vangard in .223

Only shot 300 rounds max.

Not using it and need cash to sort out bike.

PM me if interested

Chris

**scumdog** · 21st May 2012, 21:07

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Anyone interested in a Weatherby Vangard in .223

Only shot 300 rounds max.

Not using it and need cash to sort out bike.

PM me if interested

Chris

Not intending to buy it but will pass the word around.

How well did it group?

**sAsLEX** · 21st May 2012, 23:00

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Anyone interested in a Weatherby Vangard in .223
Chris

Would it build up a nice varmint gun?

**The Pastor** · 21st May 2012, 23:36

Originally Posted by scumdog

Not intending to buy it but will pass the word around.

How well did it group?

... not sure if that would reflect on the rifle, or the shooter ;-P

**Akzle** · 22nd May 2012, 07:14

Originally Posted by Winston001

The law says that if you indicate or imply that you have a firearm and members of the public believe you, then you are committing an armed robbery. That's why pointing a water pistol can lead to an arms charge.

what 'law' are you referring to?

hint: quote the "Act" and "section" of New Zealand Legislation, that backs up what you're saying..