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Thread: An investigation of motorcycle rider use of and attitudes to high visibility gear

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustic101 View Post
    The kilobite thingys (file size) were too big to post
    Google Drop box, register and upload it then post the link.
    Political correctness: a doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd from the clean end.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystalball View Post
    My headlight is on all the time, This should be enough for a cage driver to see me ( night and day)
    Headlight or no (daytime) shouldn't make any difference. Otherwise, I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalball View Post
    We need T.V adds to teach blind cage drivers to remember motorcycles are on the road to and to respect us on the road. We see many adds on drunk driving and speed kills
    And what difference have they made? As far as I can tell people are still getting killed by drunk drivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalball View Post
    We dont have a bad atitude we just get fedup that we are the ones whom need to learn. The cage drivers are the ones whom need too.
    To quote the late MJ: "If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change".

    I get sick of people harping on about how "it's not our fault".

    Fact 1: These motorised missiles are controlled (and I use the term loosely) by humans.
    Fact 2: Humans are fallible. HiVis can't change this. Headlight on can't change this. Enforced education can't change this.

    Hence fact 3: Every driver/rider is responsible for themselves.
    and fact 4: The only thing we have control over is our own attitude.

    Don't expect anyone else to look out for you. It just ain't gonna happen.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

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  3. #243
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    I think the best way to wake motorists up is to make it horrifically clear just how narrow and pointy the front of a motorcycle is, and just how far it will come through their drivers' door in a collision.

    If they think a freight train is fair game to take to take on at level crossings, then we are doomed!
    "I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
    "read what Steve says. He's right."
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    "I did axactly as you said and it worked...!!"
    "Wow, Great advise there DB."
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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustic101 View Post
    ... barriers to wearing HVG identified were image, cost, practicality and availability.
    If this is their finding, then they have missed the point completely.
    But not unsurprising.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  5. #245
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    I'll take whatever I can get that I think will increase my chances of survival:

    I'm lucky my M50 is coloured Candy Orange Max, very visible

    I wear a yellow HiViz jacket

    I wear a white helmet

    I ride with my headlights on high beam during daylight (and in 28 months of riding, I've had only one car ever flash their lights at me). I reckion that if my headlights annoy car drivers then they have at least seen me.

    I'd wear Barby pink from head to toe if I thought it'd increase my chances of survival

    I agree with Katman, we are responsible for our own safety. In fact that is why I wear a HIViz. It is not infallable, and does not replace the need for eternal vigilance, it's just an add on which I hope increases my visibility. I had a lady driver pull out of a daycare centre right across my path, but I was aware of my surroundings, I saw the front of her car come out and I went through my options, I braked and pulled up about a metre from her driver's door. She never saw me because she wasn't even looking in my direction. But I'll still wear a HiViz in case some car driver is looking my way and it highlights me as a potential hazard.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    If this is their finding, then they have missed the point completely.
    But not unsurprising.
    Yup their findings are completely backwards, but i guess thats what happens when you skew the questions.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    If this is their finding, then they have missed the point completely.
    But not unsurprising.
    Yup. Barrier is a flat refusal to have my riding apparell dictated by someone who isn't affected by that choice.

    It's not one they'll overcome.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by brp View Post
    All I know is when in area's like coastal hill riding and ya look over in the distance the hi vis stands out like dogs bollocks where if the rider was in black good chance they would just blend into the background.

    Same on a straight road - its the Hi Vis I'm seeing first not the bike , bike just a skinny narrow dot coming towards me compared to the large surface area of the hi vis vest .....
    So there we have it folks, a bike looks 'skinny' from a distance.... Yes coming to a dealer near you, the new compulsory bright orange GoldWing, the only bike now legally allowed on the road, as it doesnt look 'skinny' from a distance.
    If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustic101 View Post
    PM me with your email address if you would like a copy.

    Hi Folks,

    Have received an email tonight with the final written report (not able to upload the document its .1 too big for here), the email intro was:

    ABSTRACT
    Introduction
    The use of and attitudes towards high visibility gear (HVG) among motorcyclists is a pressing issue. There are a disproportionate number of motorcycle deaths and crashes (last year in New Zealand there were 50 and 1300 respectively) compared with other vehicles. There is some evidence that high visibility gear decreases the risk of motorcycle injury, but the current attitudes towards high visibility gear in the motorcycling community is mixed. There is currently no legislation regarding HVG and motorcycles in New Zealand.


    Methods
    A literature review was carried out looking at previous quantitative and qualitative data around this subject. Quantitative data collection included roadside observation of motorcycle apparel, and on-the-street and online surveys. To gather qualitative data, we carried out an analysis of an online motorcycle forum, and had face-to-face interviews with key informants.


    Results
    We found that the use of HVG among motorcyclists was not widespread. From observation data, it was seen that 38% of motorbike riders and 33% of scooter riders wore no form of HVG on their helmet or jacket. The survey found that 50% of motorbike riders and 42% of scooter riders never wear any HVG. Some of the attitudes towards HVG from motorcyclists were positive, however the common barriers to wearing HVG identified were image, cost, practicality and availability. There was also a prevailing attitude that HVG does not improve safety and it is the other road users who are at fault.


    Conclusions
    There is some evidence that shows that HVG can improve motorcyclists’ safety, but the use of HVG is currently low. The most important barriers to wearing HVG that motorcyclists identified were cost, image and practicality. These need to be considered when designing new gear. For a change to occur, an attitudinal shift is required before any legislation is introduced. Further research is needed to determine how effective HVG is, and to look at any alternate options for improving motorcycle safety.

    LMFAO, I hate being right, in instances like this. Yup this 'research' is already 'skewed' as they were out to PROVE the effectiveness of Hi vis, rather than ASK if it is effective. There's no research into how visible it is with a headlight on from a distance.... This is going to end up in MotoNZ/ACC/TPTB's hands... get ready for a "French style' piece of legislation....

    Just one other interesting point, just WHO were these' KEY Informants'?? NOw THAT could be an interesting list to review....
    If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Steve View Post
    I'd wear Barby pink from head to toe if I thought it'd increase my chances of survival
    Time to put you money where your mouth is & invest in pink then, cause guess what? people ARE more likely to notice you in "barby pink" I suggest you get a tutu too with that complete outfit I'd be surprised if anyone didn't see you

    Oh & FYI riding round with lights on high beam increases the chance of car drivers thinking about swerving for you or slamming on the brakes. FACT!
    Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance
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  11. #251
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    Gave them an email...

    I got the report forwarded to me. While I hope it is a nice report and gets you decent marks at university; due to one major assumption you have made, it is of no relevance to the real world. In the past I've reviewed the literature with the aim of establishing if high vis is effective; whereas you start from the position that it must be. In fact, if i recall correctly there was no option to indicate we don't wear it because we don't consider it effective? That omission alone skews the results to the point of irrelevance.

    Unfortunately it is not a magic bullet fix, there are a number of factors working against it. High vis is most often seen on stationary people, cops, road workers etc, so drivers might subconsciously assume a bike isn't moving due to the high vis, and pull out. There's also threat perception, high vis bikers are not perceived threatening, so drivers don't care enough to look closely, misjudge the speed and pull out anyway. There's a few others but I can't recall them at the moment.

    The best the studies show so far is a correlation (and some don't even show this), but I would suggest it is the cautious riders that are more likely to wear high vis, ie., those already less likely to have accidents.
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Steve View Post
    I'd wear Barby pink from head to toe if I thought it'd increase my chances of survival

    I wear a HIViz. It is not infallable, and does not replace the need for eternal vigilance, it's just an add on which I hope increases my visibility.
    I'd say there's a decent chance you'd get noticed more wearing a pink suit. It's certainly not going to make you less visible. Worth a try?

  13. #253
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    Riding to work on SH 20 from Dominion Road end past the Hillsborough on ramp.....I hate this bit as the Hillborough on rampees are chomping at the bit to get in the outside lane at the same time the outside lane 100kmph plus drivers in their nice safe boxes are getting across to the Onehunga off ramp.......I'm holding my centre lane........
    I try to be either in front or behind cars in other lanes but on the section its three lanes all at different speeds...
    This morning a car along side me indicated and pulled into my lane..as the Onehunga off ramps fills up and stops the left lane thats when the cars make their move.....I ride this section with my finger on the horn so indicated my displeasure at his actions...he kept on moving though still had not seen me...he flashed his hazard lights as much as to say " Oh biker Sahiab I did not be seeing you be seeing "...
    I had the headlight on and a viz jacket... but good old gut feeling saved the day....
    Safety gear may help but don't rely on others seeing it.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    Oh & FYI riding round with lights on high beam increases the chance of car drivers thinking about swerving for you or slamming on the brakes. FACT!
    That's interesting. I've not seen any information on that fact, where did you get the information you've quoted? How many motorists were interviewed, what were the questions put to them, what were the percentages of drivers who would swerve at a motorbike who had its headlights on high beam, and what percentage would slam on their brakes?

    Oh, I get it! This was just an assumption, there is no scientific or statistical basis for your claim. You've just made that up. It sounded very authentic though.

    Are there any other riders who ride with their headlights on high beam, during the day that is? Have any of you had cars swerve at you or slam on their brakes? The only reaction I've had in 28 months was that one car which flashed its lights at me, and I don't know if they were annoyed or thought I'd left them on high by mistake and were indicating that I had my lights on high beam.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Steve View Post
    Are there any other riders who ride with their headlights on high beam, during the day that is?
    I'm pretty sure you're all on your own here, Old Steve. If not, you're almost certainly part of a very small, ignorant minority.


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