Steel vs timber framed houses - Opinions please

[Clockwork]

So looking for anyone with experience of building with and/or living in a steel framed house (Zog, Frametek, Axxis) rather than a more traditional timber framed place.

Looking for real world experiences rather than the marketing produced by Steel Framing Associations or Cater Holt Harvey. Each other slags off the others product with a lot of technical detail that means little to the end consumer.

So what experiences have people had, particularly regarding heating, shadow marks, noise, Wifi and other reception issues.

All thoughts and opinions welcomed.

Living in one for the last three years.

Heating is fine. Poor quality aluminium window frames more of a heat loss issue that the house frames. Don't know what shadow marks are. Noise, not an issue at all, neither is the wifi.

Not had anything yet that I needed to fit to a wall that I couldn't. Impact drivers..... Tech screws..... no problem.

My house was built was built by Golden Homes, they pretty much said that steel was a way cheaper option for them than wood!

I think there's a lot of FUD being generated here (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) which is standard procedure to any new market competitor. Lots of people and businesses have a lot vested in the continued use of wood faming so I'm sure the will continue to be lots of "hear say" and "rumors" about the unsuitability of the product.

[JimO]

All the steel-framed houses in Chch survived the quakes with minimal or no damage to the sturcture [this from the Royal Commission on the rebuild].

if the slab is fucked it doesnt matter what framing was used

[Pumba]

Don't know what shadow marks are.

Shadow marks are as a result of condensation inside the wall due the heat transfer properties of the steel framing. From what I have read I believe it is an older problem where thermal breaks where not installed (either at all or properly).

The fact that you don't know is probably a good sign

[HenryDorsetCase]

A lot of houses over here are steel framed ... we built wooden , because cheaper , slightly warmer , steel transmits energy better than wood , BUT was slower to build

Personally I like steel , ...I mean ya cant weld a tv bracket to a wooden house !

Stephen

It'd be bloody hard to weld a tv bracket to a steel framed house too though: its galvanised for a start, not to mention behind the gib board.

I've had clients do both (steel and wood) with no real issues. As always it comes down to the skill, interest level, and care of the builder. The issue i have with it is that a steel frame house is exactly the same as a wooden frame house. SO, in my view, pointless.

Now if you could do something cool, like portal frames and other commercial industrial construction techniques to achieve things like flexible space use, ease of alteration, really really good insulation, great glazing with really good insulation, and stuff like that, then we're talking.

But for a horrible bungalow in a dreadful tract house subdivision with appalling "good taste" covenants? I'd go wood. Treated wood. With a decent builder.

Protip: visit the site not less than once a week. If it is a fucking tip, with rubbish everywhere, and no one obviously in charge, sack everyone on the site and start again. If they can't pick up after themselves they have no business being on your site. If they dont give a shit about their work environment, what sort of terrible job are they doing on your house? Every one I have ever had a problem with, the site has been a midden. The good ones are clean and tidy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Shadow marks are as a result of condensation inside the wall due the heat transfer properties of the steel framing. From what I have read I believe it is an older problem where thermal breaks where not installed (either at all or properly).

The fact that you don't know is probably a good sign

timber is its own thermal break though.

[HenryDorsetCase]

if the slab is fucked it doesnt matter what framing was used

yep. we've got a real amount of hilarity here with "Technical Categories" and foundation design. Bit of a moving target too....

[ellipsis]

...being an old school builder and having built with timber for the last 40 years makes my thoughts biased toward the stuff...the modern concept of 'product's', and 'product nails' being the glue in what would have once been a timber engineered joint, leaves me a little cold and dubious toward the modern concept of timber framing also...the biggest concern I would have with a domestic steel framed house would be the fire rating of steel to that of timber and the fact that you had better be happy with what the design of the steel house is from the outset as future changes would be a damn sight more involved and complex than that of timber...then again a Luddite I am 'til the end...

[flyingcrocodile46]

On carbon friendliness Timber scores better (in all timber types) providing and because it is sustainable by replanting and uses way less carbon (oil/power etc) in the manufacturing process.


"Shadowing" occurs partly (there are other reasons) as a result of transient moisture within the wall voids. Shadowing (subtle change in colour due to back wetting) due to diffusion of moisture within the wall voids (originally from the interior and exterior environments) into and through the cladding can occur on direct fixed cladding in times when there is a big variation between internal and external temperatures (and/or air pressure levels). Thermal bridges are highlighted during this process. Steel transports heat way better than timber and creates great thermal bridges which give your heat away but they can be mitigated by installing thermal breaks/tape between the cladding and framing. However this problem 'shadowing' will be very unlikely to occur in cavity clad houses because of the introduction of ventilation in the cavity which greatly reduces the opportunity for the diffusing moisture vapor to condensate on and saturate the cladding on the unsealed rear face.

Similar but different set of effects can also give a similar appearance (at a glance) but different close up. There are way to many variables to discuss here without brains turning to mush (mine definitely and probably yours as well). Even with all our experience with leaky buildings the causes and effects of moisture vapor movements through varying combinations of different material types is still a bit of a dark art world wide. This lack of knowledge is very likely contributing to current and future failures in houses. In some respects the health of our houses (and perhaps even our wallets) was better before we started using building paper, insulation, silicone and monolithic cladding systems (which killed air flow withing the voids of our homes.

However, setting aside the myriad of fine details around the issue, the shadowing effect can be more problematic in metal framed buildings that lack good thermal breaks between framing and cladding, but if thermal breaks are installed properly there should be little real difference between steel and timber (in this respect).

As far as rust verses decay in houses being built right now. In the bigger picture there is little difference (unless you treat all your house framing to H4 or H5 levels) in which case the timber should be more durable.

That said, if buying an existing house and looking at a the same comparison between houses built in the preceding 13 to 14 years, take the steel one every time. The timber used in houses built between early 98 and late 2011 (even some in early 2012) was largely untreated and will turn to mush if it gets wet.

I am a qualified weathertightness expert (mostly court/mediation based these days) and once had my own timber supply and pre-nail/truss manufacturing plant and construction business. I have always considered steel as the enemy, but these days if starting a new build I see it as 50/50.

[Usarka]

Steel fucks up compasses. Probably only a problem if you're planning to sail your house around the world.

[SMOKEU]

I'd go for wood since it's more fireproof than steel.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I'd go for wood since it's more fireproof than steel.

Funny. I always thought you were the sort to... 'take wood' over pretty much anything

[Big Dave]

My place in Brizzy is timber framed - which I don't really get because of all the expense (and threat) of termite mitigation. Steel would make more sense here.

[speights_bud]

Haven't read through the whole thread, but in regards to what some were saying earlier about corrosion etc...

I spent 5 years working as an engineer for a company that makes many of the components for steel frame roll formers.
I did machining, from the form rollers to the punches and dies that knock out all the screw holes etc.

As we were only a component supplier to the company that made the roll forming machines unfortunately i didn't really get much feedback as out how they worked in practice.

Something that i always thought about was that the material is pre-zinc coated before being formed and punched/sheared. Therefore wherever there is a hole punched, or at the end of each length where it is cut off you have an area of untreated material. But I don't think long term this would be a problem given the sacrificial corrosion properties of the zinc on the rest of the material.

As they say the steel framing is very accurate, but I would personally prefer wood, its a much easier material to work with especially when making alterations at a later date etc. otherwise you have to get sized pieces custom made which i would say will be quite costly as you'll need to get the alterations drawn up.

[caseye]

My two cents worth.
Fuck steel!
Have been in the construction business for over 30 years, Sold both forms of framing for frames and trusses.Used both over the last few years as a construction company manager as well.
If it was my home I'd use H3 minimum treated timber and have absolutely nothing to do with steel framing.
Last couple of posts have highlighted the obvious ones. Every cut or hole made post fame manufacture is a rusting opportunity.
Sparky's hate em for wiring up as so much more time has to be spent making sure wires are not stripped bare on sharp edges etc.
Nope Timber and for a while to come yet.
Plastic is nearly here!

[tri boy]

I like brick/woodframe and brick veneer. Hinuera stone, and block.
I'm no builder, and know feck all about building homes, but steel frame doesn't seem right.
Plus in Aussie, a mate had a steel frame house, and it creaked like a bastard through the night as it cooled down. Probably not a concern here though. MHO