848s in Supersport? A submission from Joe (Very) Average

[sidecar bob]

I expect anyone arguing against the 848's will not be a front running 600 rider.
More likley a budget racer with a 4 or 5 year old bike that is threatened by the Duke.
For the Duke guys, I doubt it is about how much money they spend, or where they come, but about thrashing their favourite kind of bike in an appropriate class.
I dont race old BMW's because I think theyre fast, I race them because I understand them & am fond of them.

[koba]

I would put you in the dont care category because if your really cared you would look into the ramifications and make an informed decision

Bollocks, one can look into things and still be ill informed.
I'd be willing to bet you probably haven't spent as much time as I did thinking and learning about each party and trying to suss their agenda.
I did spend time and effort researching and discussing the options which shows I do care. Still, I couldn't satisfy myself that one candidate was a clear favorite over the other.

No vote doesn't = no care, it's just not that simple.

[Drew]

I'm in the wrong company to make this comment, but that never stopped me before.

The Ducati lovers are so dedicated to their machines that they'll turn them into race bikes despite their lack of competitiveness, fine with me. They then petition for those bikes to be allowed into a class where they would be competitive arguing that they are a middle weight and it's a class designed for said bikes. Fair enough again. But let's consider for a second, the manufacturer itself. Everyone else makes the effort to stay in the current supersport rules. Triumph wanted a triple, so they went 675. Kawasaki needed to make two separate models to stay in the rules.

Ducati don't give a fuck about supersport, ever since they built the 749r and still got their arse handed to them. It was the highest spec production bike they'd ever made... Bar NONE. They realised then that what they made was not viable in themiddle weight class, so they developed a bike purely for the road Market.

If Ducati have no aspiration to contest the class, why should our dealers? It will have even less gain for them, than the current distributors get.

[Dreama]

I don't really mind if they run with supersport, I don't think anyone seriously contesting a national championship will run one, the price of Ducati is stupidly prohibitive to do anything with.

Ed, is that one of Spud's a hybrid of my old one and another?

Hey Drew,
Let's just say that the import papers are the same !!!

Not much remains from the bike that was the one you rode ... bit of the wire loom,forks and shock (had the Robert Taylor workover $$ treatment though), s/arm (refurbished), exterior appearance of the engine .. oh .. tranny was ok, wheels (as spares) ...... about it really ...... pretty much everything else is completely different.
Spud's got a gem mate ... just a shame there isn't a thriving class of similier bikes to race against ie something like 'middleweight twins' like they have in the US.

[slowpoke]

Okay,

So I said I wasn't going to post in this forum other than in the sticky thread above,But its locked and I can't get into it so will have too reply here.

850 TWINS IN SUPERSPORT

After much research and a serious amount of discussion between myself and the applicant,Other members,The board and Distributors,I have made the decision and advised the board that I would prefer this rulechange was not ratified for 2013,BUT that we discuss it further with ALL concerned with the suggestion it be introduced for 2014 if we can,The biggest factor in this for me is that I would like too see a change to the class for 2014 and if my proposed changes were to happen,I'm not sure how the Ducati 848 would fit in,I personally wouldn't want to see any member spend their hard earned cash on a machine to find they could only race it at National level for 1 year.

Thanks Billy, appreciate the post and the reasoning behind your decision. Hmmmm, curious as hell about your proposal for 2014 now!

[Drew]

Hey Drew,
Let's just say that the import papers are the same !!!

Not much remains from the bike that was the one you rode ... bit of the wire loom,forks and shock (had the Robert Taylor workover $$ treatment though), s/arm (refurbished), exterior appearance of the engine .. oh .. tranny was ok, wheels (as spares) ...... about it really ...... pretty much everything else is completely different.
Spud's got a gem mate ... just a shame there isn't a thriving class of similier bikes to race against ie something like 'middleweight twins' like they have in the US.

Yeah, I noticed the tank. Not many came here with the long range tank...And it's matt black.

Did you scrap the frame? It would have made a good home for an ER6 motor, but prolly still a bit porky.

[jellywrestler]

They then petition for those bikes to be allowed into a class where they would be competitive arguing that they are a middle weight and it's a class designed for said bikes.

So when you were still teething Drew this class was up to 550 cc, before that it had evolved from 350cc machines the 'Superbike' class of the day was the 500cc class.
How do you think it actually got there, because bikes came along and they assessed them and found them a suitable match.
Some of the best races I've seen featured twin cylinder two smokes, twin cylinder four strokes and four cylinder four strokes, with CC ratings different to each engine configuration. If there were decent triples around in those days they would have put them in there too with a CC capacity to fit them in too.

As for Sidecar Bobs comment saying it's not a front running 600cc rider who is against this; YES IT IS.

[sidecar bob]

As for Sidecar Bobs comment saying it's not a front running 600cc rider who is against this; YES IT IS.

Id hardly know who's who in the zoo, but that seems a tad odd.
The statistics suggest that the 848 has hardly got a snowballs chance against a well sorted & ridden 600.

[jellywrestler]

Id hardly know who's who in the zoo, but that seems a tad odd.
The statistics suggest that the 848 has hardly got a snowballs chance against a well sorted & ridden 600.

Are you sure, when the 916 dukes ran in WSB they were 1.2 X the size of the fours, 848 vs 600 is 1.4 times, I've no idea actually just got a calculator handy

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=The statistics suggest that the 848 has hardly got a snowballs chance against a well sorted & ridden 600.[/QUOTE]

You are not wrong.

[jasonu]

I'm here to please!

But seriously, why not have 848's race in Supersport class...who really thinks they have an advantage?
!

That is the class Jake Zemke races his 848 in the AMA series. He is good for around 8th place but quite a way back from the lead bunch. There are several new commers as well as a couple of seasoned riders that consistantly finish in front of the Duc. Plus there are one or two usual front runners on the injury list that would beat Jake too.
Jake Zemke may or may not have been world class in the past but currently world class is something he is not.

[Biggles08]

Bollocks, one can look into things and still be ill informed.
I'd be willing to bet you probably haven't spent as much time as I did thinking and learning about each party and trying to suss their agenda.
I did spend time and effort researching and discussing the options which shows I do care. Still, I couldn't satisfy myself that one candidate was a clear favorite over the other.

No vote doesn't = no care, it's just not that simple.

Thats an interesting conundrum Koba and I do empahise, however I'm not sure I would go as far as saying not voting is a valid outcome/decision to make. I realize there are the odd exception to the rule but I truely believe we are all wired with a 'gutt feeling' about many issues and often we are the ones to cloud our own minds when in fact the choice we "should" make is, and always was, pretty obvoius.

I think you are always able to make a voting decision based on a 'gutt' feeling combined with some investigation on your own part. You don't have to be fully understanding of every detail, or indeed 100% agree with either choice of what you are voting on, rather a understanding of the issue, with an action towards the best outcome in your opinion.

With regards to the 848's I am a little disappointed they are not going to be allowed as I think it would have been pretty cool racing against them and good for the class overall.

[Drew]

So when you were still teething Drew this class was up to 550 cc, before that it had evolved from 350cc machines the 'Superbike' class of the day was the 500cc class.
How do you think it actually got there, because bikes came along and they assessed them and found them a suitable match.
Some of the best races I've seen featured twin cylinder two smokes, twin cylinder four strokes and four cylinder four strokes, with CC ratings different to each engine configuration. If there were decent triples around in those days they would have put them in there too with a CC capacity to fit them in too.

As for Sidecar Bobs comment saying it's not a front running 600cc rider who is against this; YES IT IS.

Did they amend the rules to allow one manufacturer though? The rules have changed to flow with market as they should, but what other bike will benefit from this change? Who else gets to race when before they couldn't?

Front running supersport protestor, hmmm... Not a very long list of people who it might be.

[codgyoleracer]

Are you sure, when the 916 dukes ran in WSB they were 1.2 X the size of the fours, 848 vs 600 is 1.4 times, I've no idea actually just got a calculator handy

Shhh, dont let anyone onto the fact that Sv650's are 1.45 x larger than 450cc 4's............

[Dreama]

Yeah, I noticed the tank. Not many came here with the long range tank...And it's matt black.

Did you scrap the frame? It would have made a good home for an ER6 motor, but prolly still a bit porky.

Actually Drew that's the tank that was on it when you had it, same colour an all ! It was only on the bike in that pic cos it had gas in it for starting up for the first time. The tank on it now is red, c/f and smaller.

Spud has the old frame plus a huge heap of the original parts/spares etc ..... I sold the lot once I realised that
a/ I'm stone broke, business sucks and
b/ due to a/ the very real possibility of injury racing motorcycles would mean zero income. Before the recession I spent my days in the office pricing and quoting etc and if I got injured the 4-5 guys in the workshop could keep the ship afloat and unless I was seriously maimed I could still do my job.
Now it's just me and my son working our arse off for fuck all.

Anyway, back to the 749R/999R frame ... talk to spud.