Asset sale protests!

**mashman** · 19th July 2012, 21:06

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

Rubbish, the recession was an inevitable aftermath of having to reign in out of control spending. Remember the winter of discontent, uncollected rubbish, the unions holding the country to ransom,3 day weeks and Callaghan having to go cap in hand to the IMF to have enough money to keep the country running?

Maggies saddest failure was not getting the poll tax through

I agree that recession was/is inevitable and I've pretty much gotten over the fact that it isn't the fault of the govt. Yes it was a wee troll in regards to Mags leading the country into recession... but I don't believe that she did the right things in regards to sacking people etc... after all every govt spouts on about jobs etc... being key (no pun) to a healthy economy, yet it's the first thing that takes the hit in a recession. The rationalising of making money over the livelihoods of people, who are supposedly needed for a thriving economy, has never made sense to me, much much more so these days. Tis a shame the same thinking still works these days. funny that you bag the unions given that they were fighting to keep people in work. They weren't asking for more money, they were asking not to shut down industry, you know, the industry that pumped money into the economy. Crisis engineered by man for the entertainment and enrichment of a small number of people. Almost depressing if it wasn't so funny.

**Robert Taylor** · 19th July 2012, 21:30

Originally Posted by mashman

I agree that recession was/is inevitable and I've pretty much gotten over the fact that it isn't the fault of the govt. Yes it was a wee troll in regards to Mags leading the country into recession... but I don't believe that she did the right things in regards to sacking people etc... after all every govt spouts on about jobs etc... being key (no pun) to a healthy economy, yet it's the first thing that takes the hit in a recession. The rationalising of making money over the livelihoods of people, who are supposedly needed for a thriving economy, has never made sense to me, much much more so these days. Tis a shame the same thinking still works these days. funny that you bag the unions given that they were fighting to keep people in work. They weren't asking for more money, they were asking not to shut down industry, you know, the industry that pumped money into the economy. Crisis engineered by man for the entertainment and enrichment of a small number of people. Almost depressing if it wasn't so funny.

Greed ( and after all that is what causes a LOT of our problems ) is of course not totally the preserve of the ''rich'', we see it at all levels of society. I just dont believe socialism is the holy grail to fixing it all, as has been proven time and again
But I think what many of us can agree on is that the money that is in circulation should not be used for speculative interest, it should be used for productive business that employs people. Like you I have a deep mistrust of the financial sector and the obscene bonuses that have been paid to CEOs already on fat salaries etc.
Its possible to have conservative political beliefs ( and I aint changing those ) but to also see the sense in creating an environment that helps ordinary everyday people to prosper. And not via handouts.

**mashman** · 19th July 2012, 21:55

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

Greed ( and after all that is what causes a LOT of our problems ) is of course not totally the preserve of the ''rich'', we see it at all levels of society. I just dont believe socialism is the holy grail to fixing it all, as has been proven time and again
But I think what many of us can agree on is that the money that is in circulation should not be used for speculative interest, it should be used for productive business that employs people. Like you I have a deep mistrust of the financial sector and the obscene bonuses that have been paid to CEOs already on fat salaries etc.
Its possible to have conservative political beliefs ( and I aint changing those ) but to also see the sense in creating an environment that helps ordinary everyday people to prosper. And not via handouts.

No money no greed. Simple. I agree that there are greedy people at all levels, but they're only ever after one thing. I ain't talking about socialism, not sure what you would call it, but anything where money is involved will attract those who seek the shortcuts and to hell with anyone in the way. I'm talking about doing things because they need to be done. No more, no less... but such sense doesn't exist for one reason or another, could be greed, could be resistance to change, could be superiority, but it all sounds like entitlement to me. I am better than yow because I do this better and am more intelligenterer and should therefore have more than you. I wouldn't necessarily lay that wholly on the doorstep of greed.
I am certainly with you in regards to the financial institutions, but they're an unstoppable monster and great men have fought the banks for hundreds of years, if not millenia and here we are, stuck in the worst recession/depression with no real end in sight... other than more suffering for some. Wanna sort it, banks, money and our personal value has to change and change to the point where it doesn't exist. Get past that and I reckon we'll positively thrive as a civilisation. We have the tech, we have the people, we just need to get rid of the obvious budget constraints.
I have no doubt that you want what's "best", but somewhere along the line someone is going to need a handout, unemployment is inevitable, there just aren't enough jobs... and would you rather have those who have an interest in working for you than someone who has been 10 years of the dole and is only working for you because society has threatened your income stream? I care not about left, right, centrist etc... but where a policy just doesn't make sense and where people are inevitably going to be unemployed, I'd rather the professionals took those non jobs

... otherwise it'll do more harm than good. Yes there are some scum, just be glad they aren't bludging off of an employer?

**BoristheBiter** · 20th July 2012, 07:38

Originally Posted by mashman

No money no greed. Simple. I agree that there are greedy people at all levels, but they're only ever after one thing. I ain't talking about socialism, not sure what you would call it, but anything where money is involved will attract those who seek the shortcuts and to hell with anyone in the way. I'm talking about doing things because they need to be done. No more, no less... but such sense doesn't exist for one reason or another, could be greed, could be resistance to change, could be superiority, but it all sounds like entitlement to me. I am better than yow because I do this better and am more intelligenterer and should therefore have more than you. I wouldn't necessarily lay that wholly on the doorstep of greed.
I am certainly with you in regards to the financial institutions, but they're an unstoppable monster and great men have fought the banks for hundreds of years, if not millenia and here we are, stuck in the worst recession/depression with no real end in sight... other than more suffering for some. Wanna sort it, banks, money and our personal value has to change and change to the point where it doesn't exist. Get past that and I reckon we'll positively thrive as a civilisation. We have the tech, we have the people, we just need to get rid of the obvious budget constraints.
I have no doubt that you want what's "best", but somewhere along the line someone is going to need a handout, unemployment is inevitable, there just aren't enough jobs... and would you rather have those who have an interest in working for you than someone who has been 10 years of the dole and is only working for you because society has threatened your income stream? I care not about left, right, centrist etc... but where a policy just doesn't make sense and where people are inevitably going to be unemployed, I'd rather the professionals took those non jobs

... otherwise it'll do more harm than good. Yes there are some scum, just be glad they aren't bludging off of an employer?

Oh dear god don't start that again.

**mashman** · 20th July 2012, 08:31

Originally Posted by BoristheBiter

Oh dear god don't start that again.

Well ya see........

**SPman** · 20th July 2012, 14:31

Originally Posted by oldrider

Like "home detention" with a "Velcro fastened ankle bracelet"! .... Like they do now!

(Crime "does" ... pay, "definitely" in New Zealand!)

I was thinking, more, iron ball fastened to ankle with steel strap, doing 10 yrs work in a quarry with a large hammer........well......we need extra basecourse for all those new roads the Gov. want's to build.........

**Brian d marge** · 22nd July 2012, 15:29

Well numbnuts has released details of the proposed sale... looks nice , pretty ribbons , nice box , sure to fool most people

Stephen

**gammaguy** · 22nd July 2012, 15:33

history will show that those who keep the family silver do better than those that sell it to the highest bidder.

In Singapore where I live the infrastructure,land and key assets are prohibited from being sold to foreigners,it is part of the charter of the republic.

NZ would do well to learn from this.

**oldrider** · 22nd July 2012, 16:52

Originally Posted by gammaguy

history will show that those who keep the family silver do better than those that sell it to the highest bidder.

In Singapore where I live the infrastructure,land and key assets are prohibited from being sold to foreigners,it is part of the charter of the republic.

NZ would do well to learn from this.

Possibly true!

Hmmmm but then are you not just another rat who already has deserted the sinking ship, or do you pay tax to NZ?

If not, you may simply be part of the reason for having to take these draconian measures!

(history will most likely show us the answer to that too!)

**pete376403** · 22nd July 2012, 18:36

If gammaguy lives and works in Singapore why should he pay tax in NZ?

How much tax does oldrider pay in Australia or some other country were he is non resident?

And if "rats deserting sinking ships" is applied to anyone living and working n another country, what does that make John Key for all his time working overseas?

(talking of rats, do some research on Andy Krieger, what he did to the NZ dollar and who his Merril Lynch broker was at the time)

**FJRider** · 22nd July 2012, 19:22

Originally Posted by pete376403

If gammaguy lives and works in Singapore why should he pay tax in NZ?

Depends who they are being paid by. If they were living/working in Singapore (or Australia) ... and paid by a New Zealand company ... they may well be subject to New Zealand tax requirements.

**Brian d marge** · 22nd July 2012, 19:39

Originally Posted by oldrider

Possibly true!

Hmmmm but then are you not just another rat who already has deserted the sinking ship, or do you pay tax to NZ?

If not, you may simply be part of the reason for having to take these draconian measures!

(history will most likely show us the answer to that too!)

I still pay taxes towards New Zealand , I shop in NZ , I even vote in NZ .....( guess which color ...) below is a very good doc , on why things are they way they are ...you and I are front and centre of the blame ......

http://

This is a good explaination of why

Stephen