Red Flags - Should you get points if you cause a red flag event and DNF?

**jellywrestler** · 28th July 2012, 23:43

Originally Posted by Maido

I think these doays most solos have protector engine covers to prevent this. It should be a complusary thing I think, i believe it is in most domestic series around the place. it saves oil splills and engine covers = win both ways.

they're not available for all models and not foolproof, radiators waterpipese etc could also be punctured. Not the point of Mucus's thread just a side comment really

**wharfy** · 29th July 2012, 11:42

I have change my opinion of this, I used to support the revert to previous lap rule, but now I think if you crash your out whether its your fault or not and you should not be allowed to restart until your bike has been checked over, so if there is no red flag your fucked.
If there is a red flag and you can get back get your bike checked and be on the line for the restart you get whatever points are available for the second part of the race. It still means someone who was an arsehole could ¨play posssum¨ to get a red flag to try and get back into it but I would think that would be obvious to the officials and/or other teams and a protest could be initiated.

**jellywrestler** · 29th July 2012, 11:49

Originally Posted by wharfy

It still means someone who was an arsehole could ¨play posssum¨ to get a red flag to try and get back into it but I would think that would be obvious to the officials and/or other teams and a protest could be initiated.

If you're on the ground for a period of time maybe said person needs medical clearance to resume play , this may halt that shit?

**Biggles08** · 29th July 2012, 13:42

Originally Posted by discodan

From memory the wording of the rule over there is that everyone who is 'on their bike' at the time of the red flag is allowed to restart.

That's a good idea and achieves the same thing...those who crash can't restart or gain points in the race just red flagged.

**Biggles08** · 29th July 2012, 13:48

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

yep and if you've crashed and damaged the crankcases and oil is pissing out without you knowing....

of course oil has only ever leaked from sidecars so the solos are A OK

If you crash and oil is 'pissing out' of the crank case and you can't see it then I'd say you shouldn't be racing anyway as clearly your vision has been affected by the spill. Remember, the race would have been red flagged so there is no race in action, you pick your bike up check it has all the right bits in the right place with no oil/fluids obviously leaking then you get yourself back to the pits for a re-check by an official before you are allowed to race it again.

Anyway, this was what I was meaning but I like Disco Dan's idea better, you need to be 'on your bike' when the Red Flag is shown to be eligible for any points or any potential restart. That's cleaner and no ambiguity.

**Biggles08** · 29th July 2012, 13:52

Originally Posted by Peter Smith

I was racing at Hampton Downs, got into second place and was chasing the leader when he highsided, the race was red flaged and called complete. He still won, WTF.
It is still a tough call wether to change the rules as in most cases it seems fair.

I disagree, most cases it is UNFAIR as any rider who causes the red flag ends up getting points as it stands now (unless he is so far back in the pack he/she wasn't in the points anyway)...how is that fair?

Also, the scenario is more common than you are making out. I have been racing for only 3 years and it has happened at least half a dozen times in my races.

**Drew** · 29th July 2012, 13:56

I'm not reading this thread, I'm just gonna call you a retard again.

The rule is the way it is, FOR YOUR PROTECTION of points. Because there can be no argument regarding blame of an accident, where more than one person is involved.

So, the rule is the same for everyone. You will sometimes win out, and sometimes lose out, but it's the same for everyone.

**Drew** · 29th July 2012, 13:58

Originally Posted by Biggles08

I disagree, most cases it is UNFAIR as any rider who causes the red flag ends up getting points as it stands now (unless he is so far back in the pack he/she wasn't in the points anyway)...how is that fair?

Also, the scenario is more common than you are making out. I have been racing for only 3 years and it has happened at least half a dozen times in my races.

Start running consistantly at the pointy end, and keep the thing upright, problem solved.

**jellywrestler** · 29th July 2012, 14:00

Originally Posted by Biggles08

If you crash and oil is 'pissing out' of the crank case and you can't see it then I'd say you shouldn't be racing anyway as clearly your vision has been affected by the spill. Remember, the race would have been red flagged so there is no race in action, you pick your bike up check it has all the right bits in the right place with no oil/fluids obviously leaking then you get yourself back to the pits for a re-check by an official before you are allowed to race it again.

Sorry Biggles but I disagree, do you think everyone at every level of roadracing can and will be able to check their bike after having a crash, by themselves, in a muddy paddock, without a stand, to be 100% sure there's nothing, and i mean nothing, wrong with it. Even if they do they'll probably do it with the bike off then run the risk of jumping on the track under power and have shit spurt out...

Then there's some who simply don't care and just want to get back to the pits whatever there bikes leaking. One rule needs to do it's best to cover all scenarios

you also stated 'with no oil/fluids obviously leaking' if you think that's acceptable and good enough to return to the pits like that then maybe you shouldn't be racing...

**jellywrestler** · 29th July 2012, 14:01

Originally Posted by Biggles08

I disagree, most cases it is UNFAIR as any rider who causes the red flag ends up getting points as it stands now (unless he is so far back in the pack he/she wasn't in the points anyway)...how is that fair?

Also, the scenario is more common than you are making out. I have been racing for only 3 years and it has happened at least half a dozen times in my races.

hey did you get footage of David Hall at the Hairpin last weekend?

**Biggles08** · 29th July 2012, 14:20

Originally Posted by Drew

I'm not reading this thread, I'm just gonna call you a retard again.

The rule is the way it is, FOR YOUR PROTECTION of points. Because there can be no argument regarding blame of an accident, where more than one person is involved.

So, the rule is the same for everyone. You will sometimes win out, and sometimes lose out, but it's the same for everyone.

I don't get your point? Its not about whos at blame for an accident...and I 100% agree with you that you win some you lose some and that is why I think it is far better to exclude anyone who was not on there bike at the time the Red Flag was shown from any points or any restart opportunitys as Disco Dan suggested (regardless if they were caught up in an accident from someone elses misjudgment). That protects everyones points who is still racing.

Its just stupid and completely illogical that someone can potentially win a race yet crash out aswell (actually this happened on the weekend with David who was winning our race but then crashed - which bought this point to mind again) ...thats not right?! As it turned out David couldn't make the next race so the points were not affected in any way but still, this rule is a dumb one and if I was the one who crashed I would still think it is a dumb one and wouldn't think I should get points for red flagging a race!

**Biggles08** · 29th July 2012, 14:21

Originally Posted by Drew

Start running consistantly at the pointy end, and keep the thing upright, problem solved.

....Ok

**Dave-** · 29th July 2012, 15:10

Originally Posted by Biggles08

"to gain points in a race that is 'called' due to a red flag being displayed, you need to be able to get yourself and your motorcycle safely back to pit lane under your own effort (ie no assistance from recovery vehicles) within 5 minutes of the red flag being displayed. If you are unable to do this you forfeit any points/positions for that race and the next position behind would move forward into this placing. This would also apply to any 2^nd rider (3^rd, 4^th etc) who may have been caught up in the red flag incident also."[/FONT][/SIZE]

What are your thoughts on this?

soooo

what if you crash further than 5 mins from the pit?

what if you crash at the enterance to pit?

who's timing? to how many decimal places?

sounds like a maelstrom of bullshit equal to or greater than the current system.

what's the purpose of the one-lap-back rule? it's always seemed ironic to me that in a sport where milliseconds make the difference a whole lap is taken away....a lot can happen in 1 lap...

**scott411** · 29th July 2012, 15:14