Red Flags - Should you get points if you cause a red flag event and DNF?

[jellywrestler]

It still means someone who was an arsehole could ¨play posssum¨ to get a red flag to try and get back into it but I would think that would be obvious to the officials and/or other teams and a protest could be initiated.

I mentioned a medical check might help stop this adding a compulsary cavity search will see most people jump up straight away, with the exception of biggles maybe...

[Billy]

If a bike hits the ground, it MUST be re scruitineered prior to be ridden on the track again, Correct?

so if a red flag is held out, that calls for the race to be stopped correct?

So are the cluibs going to change there rules and have less classes racing on the day to allow for bikes to be picked up and re scruitineered?

NO Obviously not!

So as I posted, you have my vote

Rules are rules, but what I am reading on here today in this and other threads, people have there heads stuck to far up there arses and stuck in the 1980z to make any changes and use this site as a healthy working tool to improve OUR sport.

next I will read in this thread that this is not the place to discuss such matters hahahaha where is the OFFICUAL MNZ web site to discuss this stuff on then, You got, it does not exist because we never needed it 26 years ago, get real people

Feel free to discuss whatever you like on this site,I think you'll find the point Kev was trying to make is its not the correct channel to have any changes instigated,We have a perfectly healthy system at mnzrrc@gmail.com whereby MEMBERS ideas are listened to and discussed amongst a group of people all who have been involved in the sport since the 70s,To date I have had no feedback to suggest I have not been reasonable to deal with in my job as roadrace commissioner and have not shyed away from trying too make the sport safer,However that does not extend to changing a system that has been in place for well over 20 years without incident simply because somebody makes a monumental mistake and the tries to blame the system for it.

In short(excuse the pun),If you think the slip road at Manfeild is dangerous Shaun and you want to be taken seriously,Become a paid up member of MNZ and contact me through the correct channels,In the meantime I will be talking to Steve at Manfeild this morning about it and a decision will probably have been made by the end of the day,In the meantime I'll just carry on with my head stuck up my arse doing the job I was asked to do to the best of my ability(Obviously not as good as you or Sloan would be cause you guys are awesome)

[Shaun]

Feel free to discuss whatever you like on this site,I think you'll find the point Kev was trying to make is its not the correct channel to have any changes instigated,We have a perfectly healthy system at mnzrrc@gmail.com whereby MEMBERS ideas are listened to and discussed amongst a group of people all who have been involved in the sport since the 70s,To date I have had no feedback to suggest I have not been reasonable to deal with in my job as roadrace commissioner and have not shyed away from trying too make the sport safer,However that does not extend to changing a system that has been in place for well over 20 years without incident simply because somebody makes a monumental mistake and the tries to blame the system for it.

In short(excuse the pun),If you think the slip road at Manfeild is dangerous Shaun and you want to be taken seriously,Become a paid up member of MNZ and contact me through the correct channels,In the meantime I will be talking to Steve at Manfeild this morning about it and a decision will probably have been made by the end of the day,In the meantime I'll just carry on with my head stuck up my arse doing the job I was asked to do to the best of my ability(Obviously not as good as you or Sloan would be cause you guys are awesome)

Billy, you have known me since 1986 man, dont take everything so literally and personally MATE, I KNOW you give 100% to OUR sport

[suzuki21]

I'm sorry mate, but once every coulpe years, some newbe cries about the same thing, and every time they are left with nothing more than "Deal with it, we all have".

I know you're not a newbe anymore, but I'm sure you've waded in on this same boring argument in the past.

The system is as fair as any other given the resources at hand.

I totally agree. No rules can always be fair, but they come close. Imagine if someone got 2nd in the SBK championship, then got a good lawyer and took MNZ to court and won the championship because the judge believed the winner "caused" a crash earlier in the season? You can never be certain who caused what.
I have a theory about all the moaning, stupid crashes, and know alls wanting to change rules now days. People starting racing now are older and therefore have "life skills" - eg. ignorance. When I was younger I learnt the rule book etc as I didnt want to get kicked out for doing stupid shit. How else can all these accidents be explained, or are we de-evolving into trained apes.
Rules should evolve, but reinventing the wheel because people are too retarted to even understand the ones we have isnt the way to do it.
And Billy - Sloan isnt a rockstar, his hair is too short.

[discodan]

I totally agree. No rules can always be fair, but they come close.

I agree with the above but I also think that if a rule can be changed to make it 'fair-er' then what's stopping us?

A rule that defines all riders not on their bikes at the time of the red flag coming out could be unfair for a rider taken out by the rider who 'caused' the red flag. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult to prove who caused it. However, I feel that as unfair as that scenario is, it is fairer than the more common scenario of a rider causing a red flag and getting full points for that race. If the accident had not been serious enough to red flag, that rider would have simply had a DNF anyway.

Marcus, you mentioned that David couldn't start the second race so the points ended up being the same anyway, well if the rule above had been in place then he would have lost another 25 points.

[Biggles08]

Rules should evolve, but reinventing the wheel because people are too retarted to even understand the ones we have isnt the way to do it.
And Billy - Sloan isnt a rockstar, his hair is too short.

Wrong thread mate...lol...but your point is fair enough and correct...however, back to the Red flag issue...it is currently NOT fair to those that are still on the bike when the red flag is shown. Can you not at least agree to that? Also, if the incident (regardless of who caused it) was off the track and everyone was unhurt, those people would not receive any points as they would be classed DNF as the race would go to completion....why does it need to change if a Red Flag is shown? Surely as suggested, only those ON thier bike when the flag is shown is a far fairer result for all. Also, that is a very clear and easy rule to enforce so expensive lawyers etc that you mentioned would have a shit show doing what you suggested.

[Drew]

This is rather circular.

Present a set of rules that is fairer, and present those to the powers that be. Arguing about it on here is just retarded.

[Biggles08]

Marcus, you mentioned that David couldn't start the second race so the points ended up being the same anyway, well if the rule above had been in place then he would have lost another 25 points.

This is true I guess however it would have been a lot worse had he made it to the next race (points wise). I'm not having a go at David either by the way as had i crashed and 'won' the race I would accept the points....doesn't mean I agree with them however, and I still wouldn't think I deserved them (and there is nothing you can do about it anyway as it is the current rule). I'm sure David like myself would like to earn all the championship points we do by beating the other guys on the track rather than being gifted points after a red flag. Isn't it the racers moto "To finish first, first you must finish!"

What ever side of the circumstances you end up on regarding the red flag rule as it currently stands, like I said I only now know of x2 people that agree the current system is the best system...all other current racers I have discussed this with think it needs changing to be fairer to those that don't crash. I personally think that its common sense.

[Biggles08]

This is rather circular.

Present a set of rules that is fairer, and present those to the powers that be. Arguing about it on here is just retarded.

has already been done....this is merely a discussion forum....retard.

[Drew]

has already been done....this is merely a discussion forum....retard.

Really, because I'm pretty sure that you said earlier you hadn't supplied a full set of proposed rules. Infact I'm almost certain you said "let those in charge sort the details", or something very close to that effect. Window licker.

[Kevin G]

This is rather circular.

Present a set of rules that is fairer, and present those to the powers that be. Arguing about it on here is just retarded.

Best post on the subject right there.

[Kevin G]

Really, because I'm pretty sure that you said earlier you hadn't supplied a full set of proposed rules. Infact I'm almost certain you said "let those in charge sort the details", or something very close to that effect. Window licker.

2nd best one there.

[Bykmad]

Marcus.
Don't just bitch on Kiwibiker.
Do something positive about what you believe is a problem.
I've given you the start point to do the job properly, so get on with it!!
Make sure that the rule you put up covers ALL possible situations, is fair and equitable and is easily understood and enforceable. It must not be ambiguous. Good luck.

[Biggles08]

Marcus.
Don't just bitch on Kiwibiker.
Do something positive about what you believe is a problem.
I've given you the start point to do the job properly, so get on with it!!
Make sure that the rule you put up covers ALL possible situations, is fair and equitable and is easily understood and enforceable. It must not be ambiguous. Good luck.

I'm pretty sure thats what I have done? I have contacted MNZ, I have suggested a change should be looked at and why. I have given a suggestion and they have responded with a suitable email acknowledging my suggestion is to be considered at the correct time which I accept....

now back to the bitching.... (if that is what you believe I was doing!?)

[Shaun]

I'm pretty sure thats what I have done? I have contacted MNZ, I have suggested a change should be looked at and why. I have given a suggestion and they have responded with a suitable email acknowledging my suggestion is to be considered at the correct time which I accept....

now back to the bitching.... (if that is what you believe I was doing!?)

Good on ya foryour actions and starting the thread and discussion M.

If MNZ had a web site that riders with a valid license could sign into using the true name and license number, a lot of little things like this could be better managed, but for now, as this place is FULL or registered racers, I guess it is the best place to get feed back on ideas from