Can 3 bikes get clocked by radar?

**onearmedbandit** · 6th August 2012, 13:17

From what I've read the 'cone' of the laser can be up to 3ft wide.

**avgas** · 6th August 2012, 13:27

Who says lazer is a single point

Without knowing the police application, the military one picks up and logs a target within something like 3/10th of a second. So you could do all three in less than 1 second - and their application is automated so no need to move the hand. Was supposed to replace the old radar system in the likes of the phalanx - don't know where its implemented.

But once again, I have no idea what the police spec'd ones are. Suspect they aren't as high tech.

**Muppet** · 6th August 2012, 13:31

Originally Posted by Akzle

higihilly unlikerly.
radar "soaks" an area of the road, and when signal comes back faster than it should, goes beep. could be anyone "in the picture"

laser on the other hand, pings a point about the size of a 10c coin (targeted at a numberplate, ie) so while in theory it is possible to clock 3 speeding targets with a laser, would be a damn steady hand and good eye, but.

This is quite entertaining watching all you armchair experts/bush lawyers talk about something you a) aren't trained to use b) aren't certified to use and c) have no experience in using.

Reminds me of another loud mouth - Murray Deaker who sits on his ass making a living out of criticising professional rugby players.

**Muppet** · 6th August 2012, 13:32

Originally Posted by avgas

Who says lazer is a single point

Without knowing the police application, the military one picks up and logs a target within something like 3/10th of a second. So you could do all three in less than 1 second - and their application is automated so no need to move the hand. Was supposed to replace the old radar system in the likes of the phalanx - don't know where its implemented.

But once again, I have no idea what the police spec'd ones are. Suspect they aren't as high tech.

At last an honest person!

**avgas** · 6th August 2012, 14:06

Originally Posted by Muppet

At last an honest person!

Happy to help.
Always wondered about these fan-dangled trajectory laser targeting systems the cops use. Seem so basic compared to everyone else's systems. But never played with one myself - so could be that I am not giving it enough credit.
May be the cops should get one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1K17_Szhatie - Even though it doesn't really work, I wonder if anyone would go speeding past it?

**CookMySock** · 6th August 2012, 14:09

Originally Posted by Muppet

This is quite entertaining watching all you armchair experts/bush lawyers talk about something you a) aren't trained to use b) aren't certified to use and c) have no experience in using.

Also quite entertaining to watch all the put-downs on no basis whatsoever.

**Akzle** · 6th August 2012, 15:14

so.. so far no-one's come forward to say how this conflanged technological bamboozelry DOES work...

**davereid** · 6th August 2012, 15:24

This has been pretty well discussed elsewhere on KB. But essentially, the doppler shift radar used by police for speed detection, cannot identify its target.

Operators have to guess which vehicle is the target. This is easy if there is only one vehicle in the beam, but much more difficult if there are multiple targets. There may even be targets that the operator is unaware of.

For example a motorcycle made of kevlar, plastic and aluminium may be very close to an operator but still have a minuscule radar reflection compared to the Scania Truck half a km behind it.

Multiple vehicles also cause the radar to have to process and evaluate all the "sum and difference" speeds between all the vehicles, and if there are potential reflective surfaces, it has to consider cosine effect of those as well.

Lots of speed camera tickets were thrown out as the radar couldn't cope - police claim this is now sorted, although they denied there was a problem in the first place, so that claim must be treated with caution.

I would always defend a ticket given when there are clearly other vehicles in the radar beam, doppler radar should not be used in this manner, its simply not up to it.

**Akzle** · 6th August 2012, 15:41

Originally Posted by davereid

This has been pretty well discussed elsewhere on KB. But essentially, the doppler shift radar used by police for speed detection, cannot identify its target.

so pretty much ->

Originally Posted by Akzle

radar "soaks" an area of the road, and when signal comes back faster than it should, goes beep. could be anyone "in the picture"

but what about these bears with lasers in their eyes? and jesus riding a velociraptor?

**rastuscat** · 6th August 2012, 16:14

Originally Posted by davereid

This has been pretty well discussed elsewhere on KB. But essentially, the doppler shift radar used by police for speed detection, cannot identify its target.

Operators have to guess which vehicle is the target. This is easy if there is only one vehicle in the beam, but much more difficult if there are multiple targets. There may even be targets that the operator is unaware of.

For example a motorcycle made of kevlar, plastic and aluminium may be very close to an operator but still have a minuscule radar reflection compared to the Scania Truck half a km behind it.

Multiple vehicles also cause the radar to have to process and evaluate all the "sum and difference" speeds between all the vehicles, and if there are potential reflective surfaces, it has to consider cosine effect of those as well.

Lots of speed camera tickets were thrown out as the radar couldn't cope - police claim this is now sorted, although they denied there was a problem in the first place, so that claim must be treated with caution.

I would always defend a ticket given when there are clearly other vehicles in the radar beam, doppler radar should not be used in this manner, its simply not up to it.

Agreed, if the radar is used by an inexperienced officer.

Imagine this. I see a car coming toward my radar troll car. The Stalker says that car is doing 95, and it visually appears to be maintaining a steady speed. Suddently a bike comes out of the sight picture, overtaking the car. The radar flashes out 123. What I am seeing is a car travelling at a steady speed, and a bike taking a relative flyer down the outside.

If I had locked the 123, would it be unsafe to link it to the bike? Given the tracking history outlined? The only other possibility is that the car was doing 123, and if so, the bike was going even faster, as it was clearly ovtertaking.

Interesting discussion this.

Always ends in donuts though.

**onearmedbandit** · 6th August 2012, 17:22

Originally Posted by rastuscat

If I had locked the 123, would it be unsafe to link it to the bike? Given the tracking history outlined? The only other possibility is that the car was doing 123, and if so, the bike was going even faster, as it was clearly ovtertaking.

Interesting discussion this.

Always ends in donuts though.

Nail the cager, it's always their fault.

**FJRider** · 6th August 2012, 17:44

Originally Posted by skippa1

only if the whole group stops or is identified...

If the fucking cop is parked up ahead of you ... lights fashing ... as they like to do ... and signal ALL of you to stop. Anyone that tries to continue ... will be the number one target, adding failing to stop to the list of charges.

Then it's licences please people ...