Where have all the Post Classic race bikes gone?

[The Chow]

Bracket racing as such isn't necessarily dangerous. What has to be considered is the criteria for the brackets. lap times alone can work but the organiser(s) need to have an overview to avoid the speed differentials quoted above.

The Sound of Thunder for years finished up with an afternoon of bracket racing which for riders at least was probably the best low key fun of the weekend....anyone else remember just racing for fun ?....

In a lot of the "less serious" classes away from nationals, the objective is often to find yourself someone doing about the same speed and have a good (and fun) battle....frequently this involves what could be called mismatched bikes....personally I don't see much unsafe about this on permanent circuits. All in races on street circuits however, frighten me....

Billy, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, moderation in all things please.

Remember in my first season being a race at Ruapuna(old circuit) with John Boote on the first TZ700 at a car/bike day and getting lapped on my DS7 250cc Yamaha . Fuck nothing like that feeling of when you think you are going fast and having a large unmuffled two stroke race bike whistle past. It must have had an impact as I remember so clearly. Speed difference - no idea but imagine a 250cc twin (pre-RD250) and purpose built 700cc multi two stroke racer in the same race.

[Robert Taylor]

He won't bring it out when it's cold and you bite every time Dr Taylor

No I just thought ''he should have gone to spec savers''!

[Grumph]

Remember in my first season being a race at Ruapuna(old circuit) with John Boote on the first TZ700 at a car/bike day and getting lapped on my DS7 250cc Yamaha . Fuck nothing like that feeling of when you think you are going fast and having a large unmuffled two stroke race bike whistle past. It must have had an impact as I remember so clearly. Speed difference - no idea but imagine a 250cc twin (pre-RD250) and purpose built 700cc multi two stroke racer in the same race.

Exactly - it's experiencing first hand the speed differences betwen a top rider and yourself which forces your own riding development forward. In my case, Wigram, being zapped by Ron Grant, Geoff Perry etc while riding an old Norton/BSA. Next year on a good Manx I was with them in practise till it dropped all it's oil, the year after on a Yamaha, mixing it up with some of them...forced devlopment.

Still got any of those cheese rubber "250 prod qualifying tyres" left ?

[Billy]

Only when the NZPCRA pre82 senior boys come out of the woodwork at Taupo or Pukekohe. I'm sure these guys are hell bent on killing each other. Frightening. Perhaps addressed below :-


Bracket racing not being safe argument is similar to argument against ditching clubmans. You're confusing "a wee bit slow" with "incompetent" Billy. There's clearly fair speed differentials even within superbikes (watch any video from the top 3 or 4 riders). I don't see much issue with a racer being "dropped" a division....mibby even 2 (especially if they're not point scoring and suitably identified). A GSXR1000 doing 1.24s (Sarah speed?) is clearly dangerous in a race and would be best told to bugger off and do more trackdays or get tuition or learn to ride an RG150. A GSXR1000 with a yellow bib doing say, 1.18's in F3 or 1.15's in F2 isn't dangerous IMHO - DEPENDING ON HOW ITS RIDDEN. You could even argue that it'd be more dangerous to let them out in F1 at that pace. Hell, Clubmans in its present form scares the heck out of me.

The more powerful a bike you turn up to race on, the more you should have to prove you have a vague idea you know what the hell you're doing IMHO.

Talk to Andrew from the Vic club sometime about the guys in clubmans on 1000s and 600s and ask him how much he stresses about them.

Ask Jimmy Mair about the time I was out in a big bike session at Manfeild on my CBR250 and he nearly collected me through the goodyear kink on his superbike,I wouldnt think you could call either of us incompetent,But it was a very close call for us both,The late Derek Hill correctly identified that speed differential is a huge danger in our sport to the point he banned the 150s from running in superlite,As you point out a superbike in F2 doing 1.15s is quite safe,But the same bike doing 1.18s in superlite is just plain dangerous,The speed differential on the straights between a 200hp superbike and a stock 400 is just plain scary and down right dangerous and clearly anybody on a 200hp superbike doing 1.18s at Manfeild is incompetent,This is one of the reasons I have asked the office to forward on to me EVERY permit application from now on,Not just the ones with an entry form.

[neil_cb125t]

Talk to Andrew from the Vic club sometime about the guys in clubmans on 1000s and 600s and ask him how much he stresses about them.

Ask Jimmy Mair about the time I was out in a big bike session at Manfeild on my CBR250 and he nearly collected me through the goodyear kink on his superbike,I wouldnt think you could call either of us incompetent,But it was a very close call for us both,The late Derek Hill correctly identified that speed differential is a huge danger in our sport to the point he banned the 150s from running in superlite,As you point out a superbike in F2 doing 1.15s is quite safe,But the same bike doing 1.18s in superlite is just plain dangerous,The speed differential on the straights between a 200hp superbike and a stock 400 is just plain scary and down right dangerous and clearly anybody on a 200hp superbike doing 1.18s at Manfeild is incompetent,This is one of the reasons I have asked the office to forward on to me EVERY permit application from now on,Not just the ones with an entry form.

Yep many moons ago i cross entered my 150 into F3, mid season i was collected down the back straight but one of the top F3 guys ( who was drafting another bike so he couldn't see infront of him) I was lucky i slid for a few hundred meters the stopped un injured. I was doing 1:34s or something - F3 guys a good 15sec + faster. I the rain I was 19th out of 35 bikes on the 150. Even thou its fun, its not safe and we don't need to justify people being able to be in harms way.

The current problem is that the gap between Clubby and F2/F1 is now a bit bigger due to lower numbers, im doing 15/16's on steves bike, too fast for clubies but i was last place in F2. So people that were in F2 doing 17/16s are now going back to clubs.

[sharky]

Billy, that's one of the reasons why I have suggested to Bubbles and co an alternative class make up for the BS meeting.....which includes jnrs together and separately seniors together, not an age group split.

Yeah I agree that sounds a better idea - and it will also save the Seniors blushes if it rains

[Skunk]

So running P/C senior bikes and P/C junior bikes together is now not safe ????

At Round 4 one bike was lapped (from memory - mylaps is down). Corner speeds are similar and straight line speed is the only concern - and the fast bike tends to have a good rider on board in this class.
Round 3 we moved a rider out of Clubmans and into the Streetstock class because that was safer. Worked very well with his riding. (Someone can now find a rule in the rule book to hit me with. I'm damned either way.)

Unfortunately we don't aways know how someone is going to perform on the track in their class and what issues will come up before the meeting but we do the best we can to sort them. Bracket racing is an open invitation to have these issues.

I was watching Posties at Round 3 wondering how to fix what I saw. Round 4 and the issue was gone... Two sleep deprived nights over nothing in the end.

[jellywrestler]

Next year on a good Manx I was with them in practise till it dropped all it's oil,

I never knew you raced sidecars!!!!

[budda]

Remember in my first season being a race at Ruapuna(old circuit) with John Boote on the first TZ700 at a car/bike day and getting lapped on my DS7 250cc Yamaha . Fuck nothing like that feeling of when you think you are going fast and having a large unmuffled two stroke race bike whistle past. It must have had an impact as I remember so clearly. Speed difference - no idea but imagine a 250cc twin (pre-RD250) and purpose built 700cc multi two stroke racer in the same race.

Dead right Chow - I remember trying to crawl under the paint on the tank of my RM125S in top down the chute at Levels, and Paul McLachlan went past and changed up FOUR TIMES !!!!!!!! Been hooked ever since .........

[jellywrestler]

Dead right Chow - I remember trying to crawl under the paint on the tank of my RM125S in top down the chute at Levels, and Paul McLachlan went past and changed up FOUR TIMES !!!!!!!! Been hooked ever since .........

up until this post I would've laid a tenner on you not even being able to count to four!

[Grumph]

up until this post I would've laid a tenner on you not even being able to count to four!

Don't ask him to go past 10 - he can't see his feet.....and as for lapscoring, well.......

[Grumph]

I never knew you raced sidecars!!!!

Lining up to pass Bob Haldane at the Wigram hairpin and the world turned upside down when i gassed it....oil all over the back of the bike from a split oil tank....might just as well have been a sidecar, I agree.

As an aside, things have changed for the better, everyone treated that day in the first aid tent - incl Kevin McCleary - came down with blood poisoning. I'd passed Kevin at Bombay, spinning across the track on his arse, with smoke coming off his leathers....The first aid attendant was picking bits of burnt leather out oif his bum when I got to the tent, as I said to him, smells like a well done steak in here....

[racer40]

As of last night, 100 enties received for Barry Sheene, 46 of them post classics

[Duke girl]

So that proves that there are Post Classic Racers out there just not racing with the VMCC.

[worm13]

im picking it has something to do with cash flow for people!! and becasue of that being picky on what events they enter... fair enough really