LAMS Approval

[Waipukbiker]

Ive just had a look at the NZTA Site refering to conditions concerning motorcycles and Im pasting a couple of notes from the site which may be of interest.

1. A maximum power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne (the power is that specified by the manufacturer and the weight is the weight specified by the manufacturer plus 90kgs for the rider and riding gear); and
an upper engine capacity limit of 660cc.

2. Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.

The power-to-weight ratio calculation involves the power output (kilowatts)
being divided by the tare weight of the motorcycle plus 90 kg (for rider and safety gear).
The result is then multiplied by 1000 (to convert to kW per tonne).

So, To interpret the above, if you weigh more than 90KG including your gear on a learner licence, you must be on a bike below 250cc?

or, if you lighten the bike to compensate for the extra weight is it ok?

I see a few Trade me bikes are being advertised as LAMS approved by private and dealer sellers with intake , exhaust or fuel mods done.
Are they in breach of the new regs?

Have I interpreted the above notes wrong?

[huff3r]

Ive just had a look at the NZTA Site refering to conditions concerning motorcycles and Im pasting a couple of notes from the site which may be of interest.

1. A maximum power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne (the power is that specified by the manufacturer and the weight is the weight specified by the manufacturer plus 90kgs for the rider and riding gear); and
an upper engine capacity limit of 660cc.

2. Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.

The power-to-weight ratio calculation involves the power output (kilowatts)
being divided by the tare weight of the motorcycle plus 90 kg (for rider and safety gear).
The result is then multiplied by 1000 (to convert to kW per tonne).

So, To interpret the above, if you weigh more than 90KG including your gear on a learner licence, you must be on a bike below 250cc?

or, if you lighten the bike to compensate for the extra weight is it ok?

I see a few Trade me bikes are being advertised as LAMS approved by private and dealer sellers with intake , exhaust or fuel mods done.
Are they in breach of the new regs?

Have I interpreted the above notes wrong?

Questions 1: No. Wether the bike is legal or not has nothing to do with your weight, they have used a generic figure of 90kg to decide which bikes to allow. If you are not 90kg, it doesnt matter thats just the figure they used to crunch the numbers.

Question 2: Yes, a bike with intake or exhaust mods is most likely not LAMS approved, and therefore would not be allowed under the new regs. Most likely dealers and sellers are not paying much attention to all of the rules, and just going by the list.

[Jantar]

The 90 kg rider estimation is only for the purposes of making the initial calculation. That actual weight of the rider doesn't matter.

If the weight of the rider did matter, then heavier riders would be fine as that would increase the weight and hence reduce the PTW ratio. It would be lighter riders who would have to add weight.

Modifying a bike is OK as long as it doesn't increase the PTW ratio. So mods that increase weight are fine, mods that increase power are not.

[Madness]

People are so nervous around this whole LAMS thing. So long as you don't wedge a motor twice the size of the original, or hang a super-charger off the side of your bike, who's going to know? You won't fail a WOF at a testing station based on the status of your drivers licence and Mr Plod isn't going to take your cylinder head off on the roadside. Avoid wanky stickers & fancy exhaust systems & you'll be sweet I reckon

[Ocean1]

People are so nervous around this whole LAMS thing. So long as you don't wedge a motor twice the size of the original, or hang a super-charger off the side of your bike, who's going to know?

And who's to care, with options like a KTM300 EXC on offer at 100Kg and 60bhp why would you? I'd do the arithmetic on that but I'm busy working on my 3rd whisky and I can't be fook't. Pretty sure it's a tad over 150hp/Ton, though, even with a well porky rider.

[FJRider]

Modifying a bike is OK as long as it doesn't increase the PTW ratio. So mods that increase weight are fine, mods that increase power are not.

As I read it ... Any modifications made for the purpose of increasing the power to weight ratio are banned.
Smaller indicators, lighter air filters, aftermarket exaust systems (often not much lighter anyway) ... all added up, wont do much to alter the power/weight ratio in your favour.
Engine internal modifications may do it ... but any learner rider would be silly to advertise it. Hardly worth the bother to a LAM's class bike untill you have a full licence. Then you GET a fast/powerful bike ...

[tigertim20]

The 90 kg rider estimation is only for the purposes of making the initial calculation. That actual weight of the rider doesn't matter.

If the weight of the rider did matter, then heavier riders would be fine as that would increase the weight and hence reduce the PTW ratio. It would be lighter riders who would have to add weight.

Modifying a bike is OK as long as it doesn't increase the PTW ratio. So mods that increase weight are fine, mods that increase power are not.

unless it increases BOTH the weight, AND the performance! but why would ya!

People are so nervous around this whole LAMS thing. So long as you don't wedge a motor twice the size of the original, or hang a super-charger off the side of your bike, who's going to know? You won't fail a WOF at a testing station based on the status of your drivers licence and Mr Plod isn't going to take your cylinder head off on the roadside. Avoid wanky stickers & fancy exhaust systems & you'll be sweet I reckon

pretty much on the money. its a matter of whether the cop on the side of the road realises the thing has been modded. Even if they do notice, Id say its something they will only ticket you for if you fail the attitude test anyway.

[Waipukbiker]

Its like any law, Its only as effective as to how well it can be policed.

Just dont be a dumbarse and draw attention to yourself.

[White trash]

And who's to care, with options like a KTM300 EXC on offer at 100Kg and 60bhp why would you? I'd do the arithmetic on that but I'm busy working on my 3rd whisky and I can't be fook't. Pretty sure it's a tad over 150hp/Ton, though, even with a well porky rider.

Not as they come out of the crate they're not 60hp. All those Euro, road legal dirt bikes are so strangled, they wont actually run at any throttle position higher than 1/3.

[Ocean1]

Not as they come out of the crate they're not 60hp. All those Euro, road legal dirt bikes are so strangled, they wont actually run at any throttle position higher than 1/3.

Ah, OK.

So the difference is between the road legal ones and the non-registered ones?

Or is it just that the whole latest batch has been neutered?

[Waipukbiker]

Got to stop them breeding somehow, might end up with a DR650 having an orange frame

[White trash]

Ah, OK.

So the difference is between the road legal ones and the non-registered ones?

Or is it just that the whole latest batch has been neutered?

Nope. They're all exactly the same. The service department spends over an hour on each bike derestricting them before sale. Which we will now have to ascertain whether it's to be ridden on a learner/restricted licence or not before doing so.

[clint640]

And who's to care, with options like a KTM300 EXC on offer at 100Kg and 60bhp why would you? I'd do the arithmetic on that but I'm busy working on my 3rd whisky and I can't be fook't. Pretty sure it's a tad over 150hp/Ton, though, even with a well porky rider.

Looks like a 'tarded 300EXC might be just about the maddest thing you can buy today & ride on a learners. What else is on the list that would be fairly crazy to put a learner on in derestricted form? I know there is all sorts of mental old stuff like IT490s & suchlike on there.

Cheers
Clint

[ducatilover]

Nope. They're all exactly the same. The service department spends over an hour on each bike derestricting them before sale. Which we will now have to ascertain whether it's to be ridden on a learner/restricted licence or not before doing so.

How are they restricted from factory? They look like a ridiculously fun bit of kit

[clint640]

How are they restricted from factory? They look like a ridiculously fun bit of kit

I know a lot of carbed dirtbikes just have something stopping the slide opening all the way. I think in some markets it's more of a noise/emissions thing than a learner legal issue.

Clint