Lack Of Silence Of The LAMS - A Good Idea

[imdying]

We can how-ever be thankful that Rastuscat actually takes the time to try and inform us of change's etc that may effect us KBers...such as the new LAMS list...dudes just trying to look out for us

Yes, it's lovely to be told that we should have our papers organised in case the inspectors need to see them... (because they're unable to perform their duties correctly).

[duckonin]

... Most are EX council gardener dropouts one cannot expect much from them at all. Let alone for many of them to have to use their own brain..

[Dave-]

rastuscat has the point here imdying, let the cops dish it out and let the lawyers decide who's in the wrong, a ticket is only an accusation.

out of interest rastuscat, are incorrectly issued tickets followed up? at what point is something done if it's consistent?

[imdying]

I don't think that being giving insufficient training to complete their duties means their stupid. Putting the onus on somebody going about their business to prove their legal right to ride their motorcycle due to that lack of training stinks though.

[imdying]

rastuscat has the point here imdying, let the cops dish it out and let the lawyers decide who's in the wrong, a ticket is only an accusation.

I'm 'pretty sure' a law change has happened that makes your rear mudguard illegal, so here's a ticket. If that's not the case, you sort it out and I forget about it Lovely.

[oneofsix]

rastuscat has the point here imdying, let the cops dish it out and let the lawyers decide who's in the wrong, a ticket is only an accusation.

As most aren't lawyers and can't afford them then they are hassled for nothing and have to take time off to defend it against a system that presumes the police know what they are doing.

There was a lawyer that objected to having to hand over his damaged gun part to collect the new imported one. He defended this and won. His question was how come the police had got away with this for so long (years). Obvious answer was they hadn't done it to a lawyer before and after all the parts were useless so why not just play the game even if the rules are wrong. I think what imdying is getting at is that before the police stop someone going about their business they should have reasonable grounds, ignorance doesn't work as a defence for those subject to the law so why should it work for those enforcing the law?

I don't think that being giving insufficient training to complete their duties means their stupid. Putting the onus on somebody going about their business to prove their legal right to ride their motorcycle due to that lack of training stinks though.

Bugger! I have to agree.

[huff3r]

That is entirely their own fault. I assume that everyone else got the letter in the mail stating that the law had changed, or was that just me? (could be me, as I have a 250 registered)

I never got it, I'm on my 6R, but the bikes Dad's. He never got it either. You must just be extra speshal.

[imdying]

On a more positive note... I do appreciate you trying to ease other peoples lives by suggesting this. I don't question your intentions at all, I'm just peeved that you should even have to make the suggestion in the first place.

[rastuscat]

On a more positive note... I do appreciate you trying to ease other peoples lives by suggesting this. I don't question your intentions at all, I'm just peeved that you should even have to make the suggestion in the first place.

Pretty cheesed about it too.

I was sitting in court this morning when I posted it from my personal smart phone. I was waiting for my car thief offender to turn up, which he didn't, so warrant issued.

I was sitting there, waiting for the court process to grind on, and wondered what I could do to make things better for some LAMS riders.

I have thoughts about how I can make things better for bike riders. I know my position, and know that making the world a better place is beyond me. But instead of worrying about what I can't do, I think about what I can do.

So I did. Posted some advice that might help someone, given that I know the state of general knowledge on motorcycle specific legislation.

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.

[Gremlin]

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.

ratuscat's for every town in NZ!!

[rastuscat]

ratuscat's for every town in NZ!!

Saw someone post "Rastuscat for King" once.

Then realised it was "Rastuscat for **king". Cringe.

[Bassmatt]

Also required when dealing with:

hospital/dentist - take relevent medical journals/textbooks
electrician/plumber/builder etc - make sure you have an up to date copy of the codes to be complied with and technical manuals available for them to reference if they dont know what they are doing.
Accountant - its YOUR responsibility to be aware of any changes to tax law don't expect the accountant to know.
Schools- a copy of the NZ schools cirriculum ( you dont expect schools to know what they can/can't teach do you?)
Parent Interviews - take a photo of your child, after all they have to remember 30 new faces every year!
VTNZ/WOF - they have so much to remember as it is, better take a VIM along with you.
etc etc

[Bassmatt]

I can't upskill every cop in NZ. I can't upskill every rider in NZ. So much shit I can't do. But I do the shit I can.

So there.

I, and I would assume the others who are critical, are not having a go at you Rastus, rather the orginisation which employs you.
Why not have a document re LAMS in every car or even only every HP car until everyone gets there heds around the changes?
I think if the police (you) are themselves admitting they don't know the rules then the attitude should be "if in doubt, don't write it out".

[tbs]

This guilty until proven innocent bullshit is getting out of hand.

I see this point come up every now and then.... The last time was on one of Akzle's insane diatribes. The legal principle involved is that once charged with a crime, a citizen is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That is to say that once it gets to the courts, the burden of proof lies with the state. It doesn't mean that ordinary citizens going about their business are automatically considered innocent of anything until the cops can prove they've committed an offense.

A large part of police investigative work involves slinging a bunch of mud and seeing what sticks. Accuse someone and see how they react. If they didn't do this they wouldn't solve very many crimes. I for one am glad that police act like suspicious bastards.... I like my offenders to get caught and punished. Maybe this technique shouldn't be part of policing things like the LAMS list, but inevitably there's going to be some cross-over, so take a look at the bigger picture, show them your list if you need to and get on with your life.

Once again, ONLY IN A COURT OF LAW.

[ducatilover]

I was just going to do a runner, wheelie and flip it on to the cop, it'll be his fault.