Govt assault on young 'uns continues

[blue rider]

My point is ...

Why is there an uproar about the number of people from overseas brought in to do the work in Christchurch ... and taking the jobs that Christchurch people can do. And a large number of jobs still available ... together with a large number of unemployed ... ???

Along with the youth bitching ... they cant live on $10 an hour. There's plenty of work that's paying well above that ...

Only 4327 jobs available in the Auckland area. On the first page ... a person wanted to waterblast houses, vehicle supplied (with fuel card) and work supplied. Sound like you ... ???

- My understanding is that the Jobs in Christchurch are highly specialised, engineers etc....and you can't find them just everywhere.

- Youth will be paid 10.50 now regardless of the work they do, as business have been given the green light by Government. This of course will never be abused by businesses.

oft the 2522 Jobs in Canterbury on Tradem (25 pages) - only the first page relates to new postings (last 3 days). At page 10 the jobs 21 Sept.....How relevant and how updated is the Trade me job page?

of the 11723 jobs for everywhere in NZ only the first 8 pages relate to current and last weeks jobs.

and the first job for Auckland is selling Water Coolers B2B not waterblasting.


I can't understand why what is obvious is not discussed, namely that the numbers of jobs lost over the last couple of years, in manufacturing, warehousing, food production etc. have not been replaced.
The jobs that have been lost in Finance, Banking, Real Estate, have not been replaced either. And the future lost jobs will not be replaced with anything, if there is not a change in attitude of our government.


Last month roughly about 2000 people in Huntly, Invercargill, and other places around NZ have lost their jobs, due to restructuring, closure of plants etc. These jobs will not be replaced and this is what causes the malaise.


But maybe you are right and all these jobless people are lazy good'for'nothings...however they are also our neighbourghs, relatives and friends.

[Ocean1]

- My understanding is that the Jobs in Christchurch are highly specialised, engineers etc....and you can't find them just everywhere.

Certainly not for $10:50 an hour.

That’s one of the reasons they became engineers in the first place. Why didn’t some of the jobseekers take that option?

Youth will be paid 10.50 now regardless of the work they do, as business have been given the green light by Government. This of course will never be abused by businesses.

For years NZ employers have not been able to fill jobs that were perfectly viable at $10.50 an hour, but would lose them money if they had to pay more. All the bleating about the NZ worker’s low income misses exactly the same point: if their work was worth more then they’d be paid more. In an open market any business that did underpay their workers wouldn’t keep them long, they’d be off to better jobs.

I can't understand why what is obvious is not discussed, namely that the numbers of jobs lost over the last couple of years, in manufacturing, warehousing, food production etc. have not been replaced.
The jobs that have been lost in Finance, Banking, Real Estate, have not been replaced either. And the future lost jobs will not be replaced with anything, if there is not a change in attitude of our government.

The jobs lost over the last couple of years in manufacturing, warehousing, food production etc have been those that failed to generate enough income to pay their wages. Happens from time to time, as markets wax and wane. Occasionally it’s caused by poor management, or poor productivity, and where that’s the case some competitor invariably fills that market space.
And don’t look to government to create jobs, govt jobs don’t generate ANY of the value required to pay their wages. In fact every public service job requires the taxes taken from about three real jobs to sustain it, and adds zero value to the economy in the process. So if you’re looking for changes in attitude to create jobs look to those that believe their work is worth more than anyone’s willing to pay for it.

[FJRider]

... But maybe you are right and all these jobless people are lazy good'for'nothings...however they are also our neighbourghs, relatives and friends.

Firms like Tradestaff have openings for unskilled workers they can't fill.

Sitting at home trolling the internet situations vacant sites wont always get you a job. Getting out there and asking those firms working ... will. Those that can't be bothered ... won't.

Christchurch has a need for unskilled hard workers too. (long hours with good money) The employment agencies would be the first stop for job seekers. Only desperate business's advertise for labourers. (then have to troll through the thousand E.mails and texts that arrive in ... )

In ANY area ... beat the feet and ASK. Knock on doors ... door to door. It takes time and inclination.

But it works.

Some employers may exploit the youth rates ... and struggle to recruit staff. Or just recruit idiots. Their loss. They suffer then too.

I said the first page of the Auckland area ... NOT the first JOB.

I'm 54 ... My CV is filled with the various occupations I've taken since I left school. Most completely different lines of work from the last. Some similar ... but different. If I can change ... why cant others. Sure it means starting all over again. But it IS starting. My previous (and varied) work history (and length of time spent with those firms) stands me well in job searching. Times have change ... few can stay in the same line of work throughout their working life ... in the same area ... anymore.

Perhaps people in Huntly and Invercargill should move where work IS. (as if they need another excuse to move)

Peoples attitudes on what they do ... and where they do it (in regards to employment) needs to change. Expecting the Goverment to "create" jobs ... just wont happen. And they WILL make the benefit of staying on the Benefit ... that much more difficult. That you can bet on.

[blue rider]

Certainly not for $10:50 an hour.

That’s one of the reasons they became engineers in the first place. Why didn’t some of the jobseekers take that option?



For years NZ employers have not been able to fill jobs that were perfectly viable at $10.50 an hour, but would lose them money if they had to pay more. All the bleating about the NZ worker’s low income misses exactly the same point: if their work was worth more then they’d be paid more. In an open market any business that did underpay their workers wouldn’t keep them long, they’d be off to better jobs.



The jobs lost over the last couple of years in manufacturing, warehousing, food production etc have been those that failed to generate enough income to pay their wages. Happens from time to time, as markets wax and wane. Occasionally it’s caused by poor management, or poor productivity, and where that’s the case some competitor invariably fills that market space.
And don’t look to government to create jobs, govt jobs don’t generate ANY of the value required to pay their wages. In fact every public service job requires the taxes taken from about three real jobs to sustain it, and adds zero value to the economy in the process. So if you’re looking for changes in attitude to create jobs look to those that believe their work is worth more than anyone’s willing to pay for it.

1. because really they were crap at Math, and did not have the forsight 20 years ago to study engineering and score a job in CHCH today?

2. perfectly viable, like what....at what stage becomes a job perfectly viable at 10:50$ an hour, and are you then OK with the people earning this amount to go and apply for housing benefits, and other financial and non finacial aid to meet the end of the month.

3. not looking at goverment for anything...the current one is not even able to remember what they did yesterday (can we fire them for incompetence?), however at what stage do we expect the government to do something for the country it is supposeldy governing.

4. Government Jobs don't create value? Roads.....Hospitals.....Schools.....etc..OK.then.

None of what you said did answer my question raised, if the jobs lost are not replaced, a. what do we do and b. whom do be blame.

at the moment it seems that we do a. nothing and b. blame the poor schmuck who just lost his job.

[AllanB]

Young people. They expect everything handed to them on a plate at top pay.

[FJRider]

1. because really they were crap at Math, and did not have the forsight 20 years ago to study engineering and score a job in CHCH today?

I got 32% correct in School Cert Maths. (on the second attempt ... the 1st I won't give the result) I struggled over the years to understand some math problems my work required me to know. Extra evening tutoring helped. Plenty of dirty hands jobs in Christchurch going.

2. perfectly viable, like what....at what stage becomes a job perfectly viable at 10:50$ an hour, and are you then OK with the people earning this amount to go and apply for housing benefits, and other financial and non finacial aid to meet the end of the month.

It pays more than the dole ... which the 16-18 year olds (living at home) cant get. Those flipping burgers or on the checkout counters after school/weekends (weekly hours worked in single digits) will seldom expect to be still doing it full time 20 years later ... will they... ???

3. not looking at goverment for anything...the current one is not even able to remember what they did yesterday (can we fire them for incompetence?), however at what stage do we expect the government to do something for the country it is supposeldy governing.

Ask not what your goverment can do for you ... Ask what you ...(you know the rest ...)

4. Government Jobs don't create value? Roads.....Hospitals.....Schools.....etc..OK.then.

Jobs in those sectors already have vacancies ... and they need experienced people with qualifications.

None of what you said did answer my question raised, if the jobs lost are not replaced, a. what do we do and b. whom do be blame.

Find OTHER work. And if you cant ... blame yourself for not having the ability to find work you can do. A novel idea I know ... and probably won't catch on ...

At the moment it seems that we do a. nothing and b. blame the poor schmuck who just lost his job.

a. We all have problems keeping our own jobs.
b. Are the reasons those "poor schmucks" are loosing their jobs ... always the same reasons ... ???

Or maybe they just never gave their employers a (GOOD) reason to keep them employed. But that would be the goverments fault too ... right ... ??

[Ocean1]

1. because really they were crap at Math, and did not have the forsight 20 years ago to study engineering and score a job in CHCH today?

So, they recognised early that they didn't have the ability to earn higher wages? Or just couldn't be fukt going out of their way to make themselves worth more?

2. perfectly viable, like what....at what stage becomes a job perfectly viable at 10:50$ an hour, and are you then OK with the people earning this amount to go and apply for housing benefits, and other financial and non finacial aid to meet the end of the month.

When it earns the company more than it costs, of course. Including ACC levies, holiday pay, income tax, sick leave provisions, etc, etc... currently in fact about 170%, or $18/hr. As for benefits, in the case of someone who's temporarily and unforseeably short of cash I'm happy paying whatever's required to supliment their wages up to that required to meet an acceptable standard of living. Acceptable to me, that is. For those who chose not to add value to their skillset when they had a chance: not. For those currently attempting to add value to their skillset I'm OK with providing them with free training.

3. not looking at goverment for anything...the current one is not even able to remember what they did yesterday (can we fire them for incompetence?), however at what stage do we expect the government to do something for the country it is supposeldy governing.

When you give them the tools to do it.

4. Government Jobs don't create value? Roads.....Hospitals.....Schools.....etc..OK.then.

Jobs created by governments in order simply to generate jobs, I should have said. If such jobs were commercially viable they'd have existed in the first place.

None of what you said did answer my question raised, if the jobs lost are not replaced, a. what do we do and b. whom do be blame.

at the moment it seems that we do a. nothing and b. blame the poor schmuck who just lost his job.

Pretty obvious I'd have thought: You remove employment constraints on employers. I wouldn't go so far as to expect actual encouragement to employ. That'd be totally unrealistic.

As for blame? Why do you feel the need to blame anyone other than those responsible for providing value to match their paycheque?

[blue rider]

I got 32% correct in School Cert Maths. (on the second attempt ... the 1st I won't give the result) I struggled over the years to understand some math problems my work required me to know. Extra evening tutoring helped. Plenty of dirty hands jobs in Christchurch going

? Not sure what this has to do with anything. I replied to Ocean1.

It pays more than the dole ... which the 16-18 year olds (living at home) cant get. Those flipping burgers or on the checkout counters after school/weekends (weekly hours worked in single digits) will seldom expect to be still doing it full time 20 years ....will they...???

a. not every Teenager lives at home.
b. same work should be paid the same regardless of age. I argue against this law as it will open a can of worms, will the government soon legislate that a company hiring 45 + year old unemployed people can pay them lower wages too? And would you suport that legislation? After all at that age one would have the experience, the education....a morgage, wife, kids etc?
c. Apprenticeship can and should be paid lower, as they are Apprentices and will not be fully responsible for and on the job for at least 2 - 4 years. they are Learners, a different scenario altogether.

Ask not what your goverment can do for you ... Ask what you ...(you know the rest

Can I stop paying taxes then? If the government is unable or unwilling to do 'stuff' for the citizens then the citizens should be allowed to stop paying and funding the governmant. Libertarian Ayan Rand Wet Dream come true.

Jobs in those sectors already have vacancies ... and they need experienced people with qualifications.

again, not sure what this is about. My comment related to Ocean1 statement that Government jobs create no value.
And currently the govement is considering closing down branches for immigration in Dunedin and Sydney. While I believe that the Sydney siders might find jobs fairly quickly I doubt the same can be said for the ones loosing their employment in Dunedin. But Hey they can move to CHCH and do somethimg there. if they can live with the constant shaking of the ground, the high rents etc.

Find OTHER work. And if you cant ... blame yourself for not having the ability to find work you can do. A novel idea I know ... and probably won't catch on ...

Luckily I have a job. But I am sure the 124 workers in Invercargill that lost their jobs last month will surely be inspired by you comment, so will the 100+ workers in Huntly that lost their jobs....and all the other lazy buggers.

a. We all have problems keeping our own jobs.
b. Are the reasons those "poor schmucks" are loosing their jobs ... always the same reasons ... ???

Personally on point A: No, i don't have a problem there. But please elaborate point B.....it would be interesting to see why you believe these people have lost their jobs.

Or maybe they just never gave their employers a (GOOD) reason to keep them employed. But that would be the goverments fault too ... right ...

do you really believe this?

[Katman]

I agree that they shouldn't get 100k off the bat, but as posted earlier, they're hardly getting paid enough to make their own way.

When I started my apprenticeship (at the age of 20) I was earning $3.40 an hour. Every 6 months I qualified for a 50 cents an hour pay rise.

I was flatting at the time and after paying rent and my weekly expenses I was left with about $20 to have fun with.

That is what instilled a sense of the value of money in me.

Kids these days have largely grown up with parents that have given them everything they ever demanded and in doing so have generally failed to teach their kids that you have to earn your place in life.

[blue rider]

Pretty obvious I'd have thought: You remove employment constraints on employers. I wouldn't go so far as to expect actual encouragement to employ. That'd be totally unrealistic.

As for blame? Why do you feel the need to blame anyone other than those responsible for providing value to match their paycheque?

Ok...what constrainst on employers would you remove? Lesser Tax? friendlier fireing (?) of staff once not needed (at the companies discretion) more unpaid overhours for salaried staff (how many hours would be acceptable), less wages - how low can you go? etc....and how will this affect the social fabric of the country?
I mean in China 0.99 cents an hour is considered a wage, coupled with a sleep out on the premises shared by up to 3 people, 12 hours a day working hours and seven day weeks.
Are we talking these kinds of constraints? And we wonder why everyone with a brain, and an unpaid education runs away?

As for blame....i don't blame any one...however I read alot about blame the dole bludgers, blame the unemployed, blame the lazy youth (obviously this is always the kid of someone else.....) etc.

I just really would like to see a shift in attitude....not everyone who lost a job is at fault, not everyone who receives a benefit is a bludger and abuser....and maybe government could finally start working on something other that attributing blame to the "other". I pay taxes for these highly educated, worldy and smart people ot get the country going forward, not for them to just howl at the moon and pay themselves nice salaries.

[Akzle]

. .

[scissorhands]

Kids these days have largely grown up with parents that have given them everything they ever demanded and in doing so have generally failed to teach their kids that you have to earn your place in life.

The first generation makes the money
The second generation keeps the money
The third generation....
.....loses the money

I wonder which one we are up to now?
And so the world goes around for another millennia...another empire down the gurgler

The decadence and decay, the deterioration of family jewels/genes manifesting in rapidly increasing birth defects...
may as well just get stoned and wait for the end eh?

[mashman]

Perhaps people in Huntly and Invercargill should move where work IS. (as if they need another excuse to move)

Peoples attitudes on what they do ... and where they do it (in regards to employment) needs to change.

Such 2 dimensional thinking. Why don't we implement an alternative? Why can't these people stay and have jobs come to them? Mate it's the 21st century and the tech is available and being used by Telecom. Perhaps more businesses could get a smaller, cheaper "Head Office" and allow people to work from a central point or even from home? It would stop filling up the cities and could potentially promote growth in many different regions, lots of small localised development projects as opposed to roads for Auckland. NOW that's what I'd call working smarter.

Yes they do, couldn't agree more.

When I started my apprenticeship (at the age of 20) I was earning $3.40 an hour. Every 6 months I qualified for a 50 cents an hour pay rise.

I was flatting at the time and after paying rent and my weekly expenses I was left with about $20 to have fun with.

That is what instilled a sense of the value of money in me.

Kids these days have largely grown up with parents that have given them everything they ever demanded and in doing so have generally failed to teach their kids that you have to earn your place in life.

The world has changed, but you only notice this when you stop measuring society with your own yard stick.

Rents aren't cheap these days and $10.50 really isn't a lot at all? Yes it's a lesson to learn, been there, done that, but it didn't necessarily have to be that way and it wasn't always the case. Once upon a time an education was free, but not in my time, and fighting your finances whilst you're trying to study isn't a lesson that really needs to be learned is it? What applied once doesn't necessarily apply now.

Kids these days are same as the kids in those days. We've given them everything because we can afford it and the shiney things are trendy and it stop the kids crying about it. Kids have become smarter more quickly is all. They have access to amazing technology that was but a blip on the horizon in my day. Shit my 4 year old has learned from her older sisters how to work the PC, what the password is, switch on the TV, load up a DVD if wanted. Society has simply failed to respond to that in any positive way. That's what's wrong.

[Katman]

We've given them everything because we can afford it and the shiney things are trendy and it stop the kids crying about it.

Exactly - they've been given everything they've ever demanded.

Spoilt little fucks.

[mashman]

Exactly - they've been given everything they've ever demanded.

Spoilt little fucks.

I think it's useful shit to have in a kids hands. Not giving it to them will likely cost people jobs too. Kids banned from allowing to own a phone or smart device until the age of 16. That'll sort it.