Another two-year-old toddler beaten to death

**98tls** · 1st November 2012, 20:37

Originally Posted by Drew

The drinking example you are giving, is completely different and you know it.

Actually i believe its not.Theres plenty out there that didnt have a fairytale childhood,so what?How anyone can suggest thats a reason for anything is part of the problem.Simple really.

**Drew** · 1st November 2012, 20:52

Originally Posted by 98tls

Actually i believe its not.Theres plenty out there that didnt have a fairytale childhood,so what?How anyone can suggest thats a reason for anything is part of the problem.Simple really.

I agree, that going all cotton wool and cuddles isn't going to help. But a drink driver saying it's because his father was a drunk, is an excuse and the offender knows it.

But people that have been abused sexually, are ashamed of it to a degree you and I cannot imagine. It doesn't give them an out, or a reason to do the same to someone else of course. I'm just saying I've never heard of someone actually freely admitting it as an excuse either.

**98tls** · 1st November 2012, 20:59

Originally Posted by Drew

I agree, that going all cotton wool and cuddles isn't going to help. But a drink driver saying it's because his father was a drunk, is an excuse and the offender knows it.

But people that have been abused sexually, are ashamed of it to a degree you and I cannot imagine. It doesn't give them an out, or a reason to do the same to someone else of course. I'm just saying I've never heard of someone actually freely admitting it as an excuse either.

When you say "you and i cant imagine" it makes me think back,sorry fella i cant remember you being there.

**Drew** · 1st November 2012, 21:06

Originally Posted by 98tls

When you say "you and i cant imagine" it makes me think back,sorry fella i cant remember you being there.

Well, this is awkward!

**98tls** · 1st November 2012, 21:19

Originally Posted by Drew

Well, this is awkward!

Turn the light out.

**Winston001** · 1st November 2012, 21:20

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Pretty much every health professional and social worker has been operating under compulsary disclosure protocols for the last decade. What's changing, and to what end?

Dunno, its outside my knowledge. But Paula Bennett wouldn't be proposing it (and getting some stick) if it wasn't a new idea. I think at present Social Welfare are the only ones who receive the info, not other doctors, hospitals, and police. If a central data base is built up, those families who move around won't be able to hide their kids.

**Drew** · 1st November 2012, 21:23

Originally Posted by 98tls

Turn the light out.

Couldn't I just sit some place else on the bus?

**mashman** · 1st November 2012, 21:27

Is it normal for kids to be abused? Society says no, some people beg to differ for what reason I have absolutely no idea. Is it the feeling of power? Is it just to get their rocks off? Is it normal? Perhaps all of the above and many many more. For every incident we hear about I dread to think about what those kids are going through that we don't hear about. After all, it isn't just the ones who get caught that are the abusers and/or the abused, so you can be fairly sure that some kids will grow up in a family situation where fuckin kids over in some way or another (in terms of how we perceive it) is a view that isn't necessarily shared by the kids. In fact it may seem perfectly normal to them as they are kids, they know no better. Add the threat of violence/emotional blackmail/love/denial etc... and it is quite possible to see how some individuals may well see these sorts of acts as acceptable behaviour and carry the "tradition" on into their lives. We call them abusers/thugs/deviants/pedophiles/uncle/dad/friend. Whether they know differently or not is very much up for debate, as are the reasons that they justify their behaviour. No doubt in plenty of cases they do know different and are potentially acting on some form of monkey see monkey do level... but I have no doubt that in too many cases they don't understand that it is wrong to mistreat kids/adults in such a way. There's no thick and fast rule that fits all and all we can do is keep our eyes and ears open for those who are being mistreated. I wish it would stop. I know I can't stop it. However I hope to hell that somebody tries someday. I hope to hell that we all start backing each other up to deal with these issues, coz that's what it's going to take to even make a dent in changing the behaviour of those who hurt kids. Saying that we disapprove and that it's just plain wrong doesn't work, neither does legislating against it, we have to be able to spot the trouble first.

**Genestho** · 1st November 2012, 22:23

I remember being horrified at the fact one in four women have been molested or raped at sometime in their lives, the figure was high for guys too. That's reported figures FYI.
Now that I'm older, I'm not at all surprised at how many women I know have been raped or abused. Abuse is New Zealand's dirty little secret, only it's obviously not so secret. That is a lot of abusers. What we know is abuse of any kind flourishes where it's dark and when people turn away.

**James Deuce** · 1st November 2012, 22:43

Originally Posted by mashman

We call them abusers/thugs/deviants/pedophiles/uncle/dad/friend.

Don't forget "Mum". Slightly more than 50% of all violent abuse visited on children in NZ is delivered by Mum. This is why I find the White Ribbon movement repulsive. Their public role models are reformed male criminals and they actively deny the above stat. Everyone needs to get with the programme. Child abuse is wrong. So is denying help to parents who have no social support structure and are suffering from their own forms of "abuse".

**gammaguy** · 2nd November 2012, 03:39

Until people who commit this crime against innocent children get life that means life nothing will change.

NZ is run by a bunch of llberal people isolated from the reality of what is out there.

Until there is systemic change led by a government brave enough to make the tough decisions nothing will change

**James Deuce** · 2nd November 2012, 05:32

Originally Posted by gammaguy

Until people who commit this crime against innocent children get life that means life nothing will change.

NZ is run by a bunch of llberal people isolated from the reality of what is out there.

Until there is systemic change led by a government brave enough to make the tough decisions nothing will change

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

**scumdog** · 2nd November 2012, 05:35

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

True.
And one of the annoying things about my job is (apart from the odd judge) nobody tells them they're dicks to their face, they're all treated/spoken to as if they're 'normal' people...

**oneofsix** · 2nd November 2012, 06:12

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Rubbish. It's not who is running NZ that is causing the issue, and if we're so "liberal" why do we have the second highest rates of incarceration in the developed world? Because people are dicks. Not the Government, not your Mum & Dad, not welfare dependency. People are dicks.

Because you mention NZ's incarceration rate presumably by people you therefore mean the people of NZ and I think you are wrong. The reason there is the anger of people like gammaguy, scummy, yourself and myself at this sort of stuff is that on the whole the people no longer accept it, never did at that level just some smart-arse lawyers were able to flim flam some dumb-arse judges into allowing the section 5?. There are some knuckle draggers, (and some of them wear business suits, live in flash houses and drive flash cars), amongst us that haven't caught up, often because they think they can excuse themselves from society through ignorance or arrogance.