Clubmans racing - what's it all about?

[Fast Eddie]

So my question would be.......going Pre '89 to start with? Or slot into the clubmans for a couple of rounds?

its a no brainer, sidecar.

great people, great fun.. what else do you want?

[tail_end_charlie]

its a no brainer, sidecar.

great people, great fun.. what else do you want?

Ha ha, yeah, they are good fun. Went out with Gordy twice on the classic BMW (he didn't break when I was swinging for him, maybe its actually Kickah whose hard on shit?) and enjoyed it. But I would have to say, after following the Sidecar thread for a while now, I wouldn't get into that group untill I had found a chastity belt that I could wear backwards. That way I don't end up -->

[Fast Eddie]

... after following the Sidecar thread for a while now, I wouldn't get into that group untill I had found a chastity belt that I could wear backwards. That way I don't end up -->

hahahahah! good call - part of the fun after racing though

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

So my question would be.......going Pre '89 to start with? Or slot into the clubmans for a couple of rounds?

Clubmans;

Clubmans is a class for racers new to the sport to develop their race craft before joining the appropriate class for their machine.

At AMCC we insist all new racers start in Clubmans and wear a Hi-Viz vest for a minimum of ten 'races'. If during this period it is deemed by the Clerk of the Course in consultation with the Steward that the rider is attaining lap times no longer agreed for CLubmans (1:15 at HD) and has a satisfactory level of race craft he will be moved to the appropriate class. If the rider has not attained 10 races by this time they will still have to wear the HI-Viz until they have done so.

[desmoto]

I did the first amcc clubmans round on a 675.It was my first time racing and apart from a couple of slow guys everyone else was pretty much at the same pace.I would have thought pre89 would be alot more competitive.My 2c to Charlie would be to give clubmans a crack.

[neil_cb125t]

Right, that was more or less my thinking when I went out and bought my track (soon to be race) bike. No way in hell I wanted to try and jump on my Daytona and compete in F2 any time soon. Haven't really heard a lot of good things about going into clubman's either. So I went out and bought a '89 ZXR400 with the plan to go for Pre '89 and F3. That would give me the most track time per meeting to get up to speed (this rider needs more training then the bike fiddling with). What I don't want to do is going out there and get in peoples way for the first couple of races. I'm hoping that I should be able to at least have some reasonable times in the Pre '89, though I might wait a bit before taking a crack at the F3. I would be looking at doing rounds with PMCC and VMCC at Taupo and AMCC at HD later this summer/next years winter series.

So my question would be.......going Pre '89 to start with? Or slot into the clubmans for a couple of rounds?

ZXR400 such a good choice......if you know who I am you'll know why im so supportive. Pre 89 on your bike is a great little class, you'll also have a few bikes the same as yours, 400's so you'll get to ride with sim bikes. There will be some big hot 1100cc bikes but they actually can ride (well most of them) so should stay out of your way. you could enter in Posties and F3, qualify and see how you go compared to other riders, if the class is hot then maybe clubmans, but think PC will be where you'll want to be.

I did exactly what you did, same bike.... If you need a hand with anything on the bike just ask, I have done it all to them, FCRs, 444kits, blow em up, fixed em, blown em up again.... I have a few spare bits for them too.

[rapid van cleef]

Does each club(amcc/ vic/ pmcc) have their own clubmans class and therefore annual membership fees etc?

As far as I could tell amcc only runs a handful of clubmans races each year....5 rounds. is that correct?

Id also like to have a crack at clubmans. Anyone know a reasonable lap time for taupo clubmans? I pressume it would be track 1?

thanks

[sharky]

Hey Adam, have you adjusted the preload yet...

I wouldn't bother with Clubmans on a 400. The speed difference between your bike and a modern superbike is a problem. More likely to find someone of similar speed in the other classes.

I reckon, for a few bucks extra you might as well enter both F3 and Posties and see how you go on the day. It will give you 2 practices and if you are finding things a bit busy you don't have to enter all the F3 races. The posties guys are a bit more 'gentlemenly' and I doubt you will have any problem there. You will notice F3 is a bit more aggressive but once you round turn 1 you will be able to settle into your own pace.

If you want to aim for the Taupo round of PMCC in Feb to make your debut you can pit with me and I'll show you the ropes - also there is a Practice day on the Saturday so you can get your eye in.

Scott

[kiwi cowboy]

Hey Adam, have you adjusted the preload yet...

I wouldn't bother with Clubmans on a 400. The speed difference between your bike and a modern superbike is a problem. More likely to find someone of similar speed in the other classes.

I reckon, for a few bucks extra you might as well enter both F3 and Posties and see how you go on the day. It will give you 2 practices and if you are finding things a bit busy you don't have to enter all the F3 races. The posties guys are a bit more 'gentlemenly' and I doubt you will have any problem there. You will notice F3 is a bit more aggressive but once you round turn 1 you will be able to settle into your own pace.

If you want to aim for the Taupo round of PMCC in Feb to make your debut you can pit with me and I'll show you the ropes - also there is a Practice day on the Saturday so you can get your eye in.

Scott

Very good advice there and thats what i plan now posties or f3 and leave clubmans alone.

The only problem is down here at some meets they put posties in with clubmans if not enough numbers.

[tail_end_charlie]

Hey Adam, have you adjusted the preload yet...

Ha ha, I had enough trouble trying to get myself organized and down to Taupo (pro-rider trackday) there Sunday and forgot to mess with the suspension. But to be honest it wasn't too bad, felt pretty comfortable on the bike and had fair speed around track 2. Mostly I was just trying out the bike, give it a bit of a shakedown run type thing. The suspension does need some fiddling with, but I have to sort out an overheating problem first, then the brakes, and maybe a couple of other things to set it up how I want it.

I wouldn't bother with Clubmans on a 400. The speed difference between your bike and a modern superbike is a problem. More likely to find someone of similar speed in the other classes.

Yeah, thats what I kinda thought too.

I reckon, for a few bucks extra you might as well enter both F3 and Posties and see how you go on the day. It will give you 2 practices and if you are finding things a bit busy you don't have to enter all the F3 races. The posties guys are a bit more 'gentlemenly' and I doubt you will have any problem there. You will notice F3 is a bit more aggressive but once you round turn 1 you will be able to settle into your own pace.

Good to know

If you want to aim for the Taupo round of PMCC in Feb to make your debut you can pit with me and I'll show you the ropes - also there is a Practice day on the Saturday so you can get your eye in.

That would be sweet. It'll give me the chance to get a couple more trackdays on it before hand and try and get some stuff sorted out. Plus I gotta get myself a club license. As of now I'll plan for that to be my first race.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

Guys,

There is a big difference between racing and track days !

To be expected to run around with the quicker track day guys and then expect to be safe and competent in a race is a bloody big ask.

In a race you will be in a lot closer proximity to each other, on occasion touching each other, diving up the inside/outside, out breaking, defending lines...........the list goes on.

These skills (track/race craft) have to learnt and Clubmans class (run and supervised appropriately) is where this should begin, not chucked head long into the teeth of hardened racers.

Until recently Clubmans has been a little loose but this season things have changed and it is a true class to learn in (I'm talking AMCC here).

Put simply you could be a hazard racing for the first time in a full blown class, the responsible thing to do is learn the skills first then progress.

The very start of a race would be a whole new experience for a track day junkie (how many track days have grided starts? non!) How many have experienced being 'lent on' into the first turn? been drafted and out-braked just inches apart.

Clubmans is the class all new racers should progress through and learn in, That's what the class is there for.

I'm not trying to put anyone off, I'm one of the biggest advocates for Clubmans but we aint playing tiddlywinks here, big speeds with big consequences.

[tail_end_charlie]

Guys,

There is a big difference between racing and track days !

To be expected to run around with the quicker track day guys and then expect to be safe and competent in a race is a bloody big ask.

In a race you will be in a lot closer proximity to each other, on occasion touching each other, diving up the inside/outside, out breaking, defending lines...........the list goes on.

These skills (track/race craft) have to learnt and Clubmans class (run and supervised appropriately) is where this should begin, not chucked head long into the teeth of hardened racers.

Until recently Clubmans has been a little loose but this season things have changed and it is a true class to learn in (I'm talking AMCC here).

Put simply you could be a hazard racing for the first time in a full blown class, the responsible thing to do is learn the skills first then progress.

The very start of a race would be a whole new experience for a track day junkie (how many track days have grided starts? non!) How many have experienced being 'lent on' into the first turn? been drafted and out-braked just inches apart.

Clubmans is the class all new racers should progress through and learn in, That's what the class is there for.

I'm not trying to put anyone off, I'm one of the biggest advocates for Clubmans but we aint playing tiddlywinks here, big speeds with big consequences.

I understand what you are saying here, and I agree with you. I've done around 8 trackdays so far, and I know I have gotten a lot more confident, as well as improved my skill set at knowing what I can and can't do on the bike. But I am also very much aware that I have a long way to go in knowing what the bike is capable of. (A very long way to be honest) I do get a bit nervous coming into a corner at a trackday and suddenly realizing that the rider in front is going a lot slower than me, trying to figure out a new line to avoid a conflagration et'al. I know that I have a lot to learn about race craft, and thats why I'm asking the question.

My biggest concern is the large differential in speed. I'm on a 400 (60 hp), while most guys running in Clubmans are on 600 (110 hp) and some are even running 1000s (170 hp). I sure I could go on telling you what you already know better than I about the bike differences, but I'm not going to waste your time.

The way I see it is that if I were to run in PC Pre '89 I would be running with more bikes equivalent to my own. Which means that the skill of the rider is the only thing giving an advantage (there will be plenty of that though). So my thought is that letting the race coordinator know I'm a newbie, wearing hi-viz, and starting from the back of the grid (due to a lack of start experience) in the Pre '89 might be the safest.

I understand that AMCC is maybe paying a little more attention to the Clubmans bracket to make sure people are learning rather than being scared off, and I would be fine with running Clubman's if I went to a AMCC meet, as per your guidelines. Just trying to take in the advice I see here on KB.............because what you read on KB can be taken as second only to the Gospel. (oh wait )

[rapid van cleef]

To be even remotely competitive in clubmans class, would the expectation be that track day riders would be running at the front of say, group 3 at ART days? I'm really keen to give this racing lark a go. However, Id rather build skills 'racecraft' gradually.

[Dave-]

To be even remotely competitive in clubmans class, would the expectation be that track day riders would be running at the front of say, group 3 at ART days? I'm really keen to give this racing lark a go. However, Id rather build skills 'racecraft' gradually.

I'd say your position at track days bares very little resemblance to your competitiveness in clubmans.

I cut like 5 seconds a lap off my best in my first meeting.

My mate did the exact same thing.

I think sharp2183 did something similar too, hopefully he'll see this.

all 3 of us track day hacks.

I probably shouldn't have told you that cause now you'll place yourself 5s higher, to be honest I think you should place yourself in clubmans where you place a track day, this is the conservative approach, if you go faster then well done.

[sharp2183]

I'd say your position at track days bares very little resemblance to your competitiveness in clubmans.

I cut like 5 seconds a lap off my best in my first meeting.

My mate did the exact same thing.

I think sharp2183 did something similar too, hopefully he'll see this.

all 3 of us track day hacks.

I probably shouldn't have told you that cause now you'll place yourself 5s higher, to be honest I think you should place yourself in clubmans where you place a track day, this is the conservative approach, if you go faster then well done.

Not 100% sure about 5 seconds off my track day times, but at least a few seconds. I agree that racing is very different from track days. I had done plenty of track days so adjusting wasn't hard. The close proximity to other riders was the biggest change but also one of the most exciting bits.

I think people need to not put racing on a pedestal (watch 40 year old virgin if you don't get that reference). It's relaxed and fun, and at the end of the day you don't have to ride at 105% if it worrys you.

But yeah, lapping fast at a track day is not the same as doing well in a race.