Ranting about NZ retailers

[Bassmatt]

That's as may be, I defer to your knowledge of the various flavours of economists, but I still believe as soon as you advocate interfering to bring balance or control to the market you are, in effect becoming a socialist.

Its just a matter of shade is all.

Well I guess that makes every Govt. on the planet socialist then eh? There is no Govt. sanctioned market anywhere in the world that has absolutely no form of control or regulation.
Idiot.

[PeeJay]

EXACTLY, what PeeJay also conveniently fails to mention is that the business has to have the capital base and cash flow in the first place to pay gst. Not an insignificant problem.....

I will say it again, if you purchase goods in New Zealand or ( for example a US citizen purchasing goods in his home country ) you pay tax on the goods. Why should you not pay tax on private imports bought off the net?

On the face of it there is an enormous amount stacked against NZ retailers.

Presume that if its "not an insignificant problem" is another way of saying its a significant problem. Really?
Considering its refunded in what 6 weeks?
If your business is running so close to the wire that this is a significant problem, perhaps you should be doing something else.

I will say it again, if you purchase goods in New Zealand or ( for example a US citizen purchasing goods in his home country ) you pay tax on the goods. Why should you not pay tax on private imports bought off the net?

Say it as often as you like, still wont make it true
The tax free threshold also applies to you, so if its really a problem for you, just bring in shipments at less than $400 and you wont have to stump up for gst
The other side to this is, if a private importer brings something in at more than $400, they are liable for gst

IE the same threshold rules apply to both a commercial importer and a private importer

But you and Ed already know this but dont want to say because it undermines your argument

[PeeJay]

Of course it bloody well matters if the store (storeman) is here rather than in LA ( apples for apples ) Id rather put money into a locals pocket where it will be circulated into the local NZ community. Rather than some Yank who actually doesnt give a damn about whether our economy sinks or swims.

Have so many of us become so callous about the plight of our own people?

If you had read it I said the physical warehouse could be in LA

Id rather put money into a locals pocket where it will be circulated into the local NZ community. Rather than some Yank who actually doesnt give a damn about whether our economy sinks or swims.

Have so many of us become so callous about the plight of our own people?

Before fall off your high horse, how much money are you siphoning out of the NZ economy and sending of overseas to keep Swedes, Japanese, Chinese, Americans in work?
Maybe the govt should ban the import of Ohlins and RaceTech then all that money that currently goes overseas could as you put it

Id rather put money into a locals pocket where it will be circulated into the local NZ community

[PeeJay]

No then, you are a liar, because if you did indeed have a business that exported and " a Side line" that imported, you would have a clue what you are talking about, because now you say that you cant claim the GST you pay to customs on imported vehicles (because its impossible, as it is a duty by another name), but YOU claim it back form the IRD "because they adminsiter GST, not customs".
Peejay, if you want to be taken seriously, don't make shit up.
You are demonstrating that you do not understand the costs of importing vehicles and parts as a business into New Zealand.

You clearly have no idea.

Has someone hidden your pills or are you naturally an idiot?

[Edbear]

Presume that if its "not an insignificant problem" is another way of saying its a significant problem. Really?
Considering its refunded in what 6 weeks?
If your business is running so close to the wire that this is a significant problem, perhaps you should be doing something else.



Say it as often as you like, still wont make it true
The tax free threshold also applies to you, so if its really a problem for you, just bring in shipments at less than $400 and you wont have to stump up for gst
The other side to this is, if a private importer brings something in at more than $400, they are liable for gst

IE the same threshold rules apply to both a commercial importer and a private importer

But you and Ed already know this but dont want to say because it undermines your argument

My "argument" per se is only to inform about the realities of importing. As NZ agent I have minimum order quantities to meet and of course it would be wildly impractical to import less, in fact my orders always exceed the minimum.

In summary, my example should show I am not creaming it and importers are subject to a lot of costs inNZ so a direct comparison with overseas prices is not realistic. I try to hold costs and prices down but count on increasing volumes to make it worthwhile.

[PeeJay]

My "argument" per se is only to inform about the realities of importing. As NZ agent I have minimum order quantities to meet and of course it would be wildly impractical to import less, in fact my orders always exceed the minimum.

In summary, my example should show I am not creaming it and importers are subject to a lot of costs inNZ so a direct comparison with overseas prices is not realistic. I try to hold costs and prices down but count on increasing volumes to make it worthwhile.

I am sure you're not creaming it.
The point is it is your choice.

As a private importer if I bring in a $1000 item, and you as a business bring in a $1000 item who actually has the most costs associated with the import?

We are both charged gst, you get yours refunded, I dont

I pay with after tax earnings ie in order to pay my $1000 + $150 I have to earn approx $1400
You pay with tax deductible funds

Any other associated costs, eg couriers brokers etc are tax deductible for you, Not for me.

Other costs you may incur, warehousing, advertising etc, they are all to do with how you run your business after you have imported your goods, Work from home ( and claim tax deductions on a sizable amount of your private expenses) or rent/own a large warehouse, more tax deductions, these are all choices you make.
nothing to do with the actual importing.

Now perhaps you need to sell the $1000 widget for $1500 to help pay for all this and give yourself a few dollars in the pocket, again your choice, and my choice to spend my money elsewhere.

Bottom line, if its not worth your while to bring in $1000 widgets for resale than dont do it. Your choice.
But the idea that I should have to pay more, or have to buy from you "as the official importer" if I want a widget sucks

At the end of the day
Consumers dont buy a battery from you because they wish to support your lifestyle, they buy a battery because they want a battery.
You dont bring in batteries because you are a nice guy, you bring them in because you can see there is a dollar to be made.

[Edbear]

I am sure you're not creaming it.
The point is it is your choice.

As a private importer if I bring in a $1000 item, and you as a business bring in a $1000 item who actually has the most costs associated with the import?

We are both charged gst, you get yours refunded, I dont

I pay with after tax earnings ie in order to pay my $1000 + $150 I have to earn approx $1400
You pay with tax deductible funds

Any other associated costs, eg couriers brokers etc are tax deductible for you, Not for me.

Other costs you may incur, warehousing, advertising etc, they are all to do with how you run your business after you have imported your goods, Work from home ( and claim tax deductions on a sizable amount of your private expenses) or rent/own a large warehouse, more tax deductions, these are all choices you make.
nothing to do with the actual importing.

Now perhaps you need to sell the $1000 widget for $1500 to help pay for all this and give yourself a few dollars in the pocket, again your choice, and my choice to spend my money elsewhere.

Bottom line, if its not worth your while to bring in $1000 widgets for resale than dont do it. Your choice.
But the idea that I should have to pay more, or have to buy from you "as the official importer" if I want a widget sucks

At the end of the day
Consumers dont buy a battery from you because they wish to support your lifestyle, they buy a battery because they want a battery.
You dont bring in batteries because you are a nice guy, you bring them in because you can see there is a dollar to be made.

All quite true. I saw the potential of this brand and now my accountant opines I have created the golden goose, all I need now is to hang on to it long enough to harvest the golden eggs.

The truth is that I was prepared to take a risk and invest two years and probably in excess of $100k to ensure it would work. Without the support of my wife and certain key individuals both here on KB and in the market, I could have lost my shirt. This is why most don't try it as it does take this commitment to do it.

Having sole agency makes it simple for the manufacturer and gives the consumer a place to go with any questions or concerns and to have warranty issues addressed quickly. I have always gonebeynd the termsof the warranty in favour of my customers and this is something you won't get as a private importer.

What Shorai has done though, is required me to address all warranty issues whether the battery was bought from me or my dealers or was imported privately. Not many would do that, either.

[Clockwork]

Well I guess that makes every Govt. on the planet socialist then eh? There is no Govt. sanctioned market anywhere in the world that has absolutely no form of control or regulation.
Idiot.

Maybe, but what's your point?

Retard.

[FastFred]

if you want to be taken seriously, don't make shit up.

Too true SS90, one shouldn't exaggerate their experience and make shit up, in the end people see through it.

GST is not a Duty by another name, its a Tax, a Tax on Goods or Service, Duty is something else, and usually imposed to influence consumption and/or collect extra tax revenue and/or protect local interests.

A little research may be in order to understand the accounting principles involved, and if one can apply a little intelligence, search engines like Google are good for improving your understanding of nearly any subject.

[Brian d marge]

I'm a god. Get over it

Stephen

[SS90]

Too true SS90, one shouldn't exaggerate their experience and make shit up, in the end people see through it.

GST is not a Duty by another name, its a Tax, a Tax on Goods or Service, Duty is something else, and usually imposed to influence consumption and/or collect extra tax revenue and/or protect local interests.

A little research may be in order to understand the accounting principles involved, and if one can apply a little intelligence, search engines like Google are good for improving your understanding of nearly any subject.

As usual, we have a teenager with no experience thinking he knows everything once again.

You are, of course, as always, wrong.

GST on imported vehicles is not recoverable, it is, simply a duty, under the guise of GST, there is no duty on imported vehicles, but there is GST, and in the case of imported vehicles, this GST is not recoverable.

This is a duty, by another name.
Other countries, like, say anywhere in the EU, have a duty (depending on where it was made, which the concept of "Triangulation" comes in to play), and they also have VAT (or MWST as it is called here)

When you pay your duty and MWST, as a company you are given a credit for the recoverable
MWST, offset against the duty you have to pay, a simply paperwork process, but it avoids your quarterly MWST return being a pain in the are for the tax department.

Whereas, in NZ, there is no duty (unique in the world in my experience), but the VAT (GST) is not recoverable.

This, is in effect, a duty.

Also, in the EU, cubic capacity plays a part in the amount of duty you pay, whereas, NZ, it is calculated on the purchase price of the bike (plus shipping), regardless of displacement.

This is one reason why bikes in NZ are slightly higher than other countries, and also, pre GST days (when there was a duty) why some companies imported certain bikes 80% complete (you only need 20% of the bike to be assembled here for it to qualify for "NZ assembled"

Same situation with Toyota, by the end of it, they where just fitting trims, but enough to qualify as "NZ assembled"

Also, Puma helmets (anyone old enough to have hair on their cock will remember them)

As protectionism for NZ manufacturing, there was a duty on helmets in NZ, right up till about 8 years ago, enabling Puma to be able to manufacture helmets in NZ (and employ staff, who paid tax), and "keep the country working", eventually, Puma simply started importing the parts, to the point whee, like Toyota, it was a joke, as Puma clearly where just part assemblers, and that isn't manufacturing, eventually, the duty on helmets was reduced to 0, and the market was able to grow, and Puma simply had everything made off shore with their name on it.

How many people lost their job?

Where as, in the UK, their is no VAT on helmets at all, and, the prices are very low compared to NZ (volume sales is lime that)

Really, people who actively pursue the idea of going around NZ distributors, and then bleat about it just do not realise the harm they are doing.

Sometimes, NZ prices are harsh, but I assure anyone that has the age and experience to understand that the world is bigger than the stains on their bed sheet, most NZ wholesalers have better stock on hand than most European distributors. This all comes at a cost, both in capital outlay, and overheads.

A business MUST make 20% to be viable, and you would be surprised tom learn than most bike shops don't, they are an anomaly.

[FastFred]

I was agreeing with you and am a little surprised by your over reaction .....

SS90, paranoia is not normal, and resorting to abuse when you think you are being challenged shows some inner problem.

looking back over some of your other posts, my guess is, there is a big need for attention by exaggerating your credentials.

If you would like to be at ease socially and comfortable in your own skin, there are professional people you can talk to that would help you get some perspective on your life and real balance to your self image.

[Robert Taylor]

As usual, we have a teenager with no experience thinking he knows everything once again.

You are, of course, as always, wrong.

GST on imported vehicles is not recoverable, it is, simply a duty, under the guise of GST, there is no duty on imported vehicles, but there is GST, and in the case of imported vehicles, this GST is not recoverable.

This is a duty, by another name.
Other countries, like, say anywhere in the EU, have a duty (depending on where it was made, which the concept of "Triangulation" comes in to play), and they also have VAT (or MWST as it is called here)

When you pay your duty and MWST, as a company you are given a credit for the recoverable
MWST, offset against the duty you have to pay, a simply paperwork process, but it avoids your quarterly MWST return being a pain in the are for the tax department.

Whereas, in NZ, there is no duty (unique in the world in my experience), but the VAT (GST) is not recoverable.

This, is in effect, a duty.

Also, in the EU, cubic capacity plays a part in the amount of duty you pay, whereas, NZ, it is calculated on the purchase price of the bike (plus shipping), regardless of displacement.

This is one reason why bikes in NZ are slightly higher than other countries, and also, pre GST days (when there was a duty) why some companies imported certain bikes 80% complete (you only need 20% of the bike to be assembled here for it to qualify for "NZ assembled"

Same situation with Toyota, by the end of it, they where just fitting trims, but enough to qualify as "NZ assembled"

Also, Puma helmets (anyone old enough to have hair on their cock will remember them)

As protectionism for NZ manufacturing, there was a duty on helmets in NZ, right up till about 8 years ago, enabling Puma to be able to manufacture helmets in NZ (and employ staff, who paid tax), and "keep the country working", eventually, Puma simply started importing the parts, to the point whee, like Toyota, it was a joke, as Puma clearly where just part assemblers, and that isn't manufacturing, eventually, the duty on helmets was reduced to 0, and the market was able to grow, and Puma simply had everything made off shore with their name on it.

How many people lost their job?

Where as, in the UK, their is no VAT on helmets at all, and, the prices are very low compared to NZ (volume sales is lime that)

Really, people who actively pursue the idea of going around NZ distributors, and then bleat about it just do not realise the harm they are doing.

Sometimes, NZ prices are harsh, but I assure anyone that has the age and experience to understand that the world is bigger than the stains on their bed sheet, most NZ wholesalers have better stock on hand than most European distributors. This all comes at a cost, both in capital outlay, and overheads.

A business MUST make 20% to be viable, and you would be surprised tom learn than most bike shops don't, they are an anomaly.

Very very well said. Of course its not only the motorcycle industry that is in strife. I have to wonder aloud how many that come onto this forum bleating away are themselves part of industries or retailing that are struggling to compete / survive with competition from overseas. There is a big picture here and a lot more business closures / job losses and upheaval to follow.

[mashman]

I'm a god. Get over it

Stephen

There you are Son. Can you call your mum please, she's been worried.

[SS90]

I have to wonder aloud how many that come onto this forum bleating away are themselves part of industries or retailing that are struggling to compete / survive with competition from overseas. There is a big picture here and a lot more business closures / job losses and upheaval to follow.

Its not just NZ that's in trouble, and it getting worse, not better.

I can think of several examples of people that have set out planning to "set the world on fire" with low priced accessories, bikes and so on, only to find that to do that, you must cut your margin, which in turn effects the bottom line.

The bike industry in NZ is only 8 months of the year, as an apprentice, we used to restore a Clanet car for the boss during winters, as there was bugger all else to do, this meant, he was subsidising our jobs, meaning, they should have been seasonal.

In Europe, my job is seasonal, my first job we had 2 months (subsidised) holiday (it snows alot the continent) from mid November, till mid January. When I moved further south (colder) it was Mid November till Mid Feb. (unsubsidised, but better monthly pay which made up for it)

Margins on parts are rubbish (20% or less), as the competition for your € is intense. People expect alot for their money, and generally get it.

I see Kiwis are having to pay near $100 an hour for spanner work these days..... That sickens me, but doesn't surprise me. It is a representation of what is required to keep a shop running, with margins reduced on parts, the shortfall needs to be made up from skilled labour charges, and to get skilled Labour, the business must pay skilled labour wages, which must again be reflected in the charge out rate.

I don't begrudge people questioning high parts prices, but you need to understand what is required to have a productive shop in New Zealand. Be grateful you have an industry.

I cant even buy sulphuric acid from a store in town..... It has to be ordered in... Why? As the wholesaler said "everyone complains of the price when I stock it, saying they can get it cheaper in Ebay, so I only get it in to order".... Coming soon to a town near YOU!