The rules are the rules

[Tony.OK]

I still interpret that to read, no modification of the parts, assemble as you like.

As constructed by manufacturer............................not many come out with all the same cams do they?
You been into my Irish liqueurs again?

[Drew]

As constructed by manufacturer............................not many come out with all the same cams do they?
You been into my Irish liqueurs again?

See, we interpret it different.

[slowpoke]

MNZ don't have any rules for F1 or F2 nor F3. We can write entire rules for 100cc bikes and call the class F1 if we wanted. It would be bloody confusing. We can make up whatever we please under those names as long as the Road Race Commissioner is happy with it.

I think you're confusing Superbikes with F1...

No, I'm confused alright but I saw this little lot about number boards from MNZ 10.2.3:

"Formula One White background, black figures
Formula Two Yellow background, black figures
Formula Three Black background, white figures"

and missed the wee "Pre-89" designation above it. Then read the Vic Club rules regarding the capacity limits for the Formula classes.....but not the fine print that basically disregards the capacity limits. Sheesh, I'm just gonna rock up and if I get booted I'm off to the pub and spend the $$$ saved -> win win.

PS: if someone does get done for cheating I hope they make a decent job of it, it'd be farkin' embarrassing to be done for a 655cc pro-twin when there are perfectly good 750 kits available.....

[FROSTY:Me]

Drew- the point being if you know for fact that the specific modification is being made then its pretty easy to make a protest specific to that modification.
But think it through. What modifications have been made and could be made to a "production" engine to get more HP?
Shave the barels to boost compression. Then you need to replace the studs because the factory ones stretch.-How would you check a shaved barrel?
reprofiled factory cams.different internals in the ecu. Heck the list is huge and most things are undetectable without carefull measureing.
Which is why right from the moment PT was being discussed at Ruapuna in 2006 I said make it a 76hp apsolute limit.
Do what you like inside the engine and ECU but if you get pulled and your bike makes more than 76hp you are disqualified.
People got up in arms with lots of reasons why not. Funny though that the self same rule applies in the UK in their "pro twins" class and has proven to be very successful for a lot of years

[slowpoke]

Which is why right from the moment PT was being discussed at Ruapuna in 2006 I said make it a 76hp apsolute limit.
Do what you like inside the engine and ECU but if you get pulled and your bike makes more than 76hp you are disqualified.
People got up in arms with lots of reasons why not. Funny though that the self same rule applies in the UK in their "pro twins" class and has proven to be very successful for a lot of years

How's that gonna work Frosty? Is MNZ gonna buy a Dyno? At what atmospheric conditions? 76hp at altitude at Taupo or sea level at Teretonga?

Edit: not to mention folks just go chasing a fatter and fatter midrange, with faster spin up/less gyro forces with cams, lightened internals etc. So it becomes just another spendathon as everyone has to ante up for Ti rods, lightened cranks, aftermarket cams etc or they can't compete.

[RDjase]

I'm currently 82kgs - I put on a few kg's after crashing at HD in March - I got up to 86kg's but have been back into the exercise for a couple of months now.

There have been times in club racing when I have struggled to keep up with a few SV's. Even after getting on the gas earlier out of Dunlop at Manfeild - couldn't even slip stream the dude in front which was pretty frustrating - but short of calling him a cheat, he did have a lot of distributor backing and I had heard his motor was balanced and blueprinted - all legal as far as I know.

BUT - I also know a racer in the same class at the time built up his SV motor to the nth degree, plus a little timing advance mod which was not legal (in his words), and he still got dragged off in a straight line by the aforementioned bike. The riders both the same weight too.

I know of another SV which had the same mod done. This was at club level and while frustrating it was still club level and I couldn't be arsed protesting.

I have also heard from top F3 racers about pro twins not being pro twins - I mean, how can a pro twin keep up with a top F3 bike (and top rider) in a straight line? There should be a good 10HP difference between the two.

I'm not grizzling about it but it doesn't add up. I have no proof and so will not publically slander anyone either.

At the Nats earlier this year, there was nothing between the pro twin field that I could see. Slipstreaming occurred - there was some very good close racing. At Timaru the top 6 qualified within 0.6s from memory. Bryan Hill ran away with every race - the one time I was in frotn he came past me on the straight, but I knowingly muffed the exit of the corner and he got way better drive.

At HD, I felt I was all over the SI'ers, so much so that I showed a couple of them around the track in practice to make them faster in the hope I could put them between Bryan and myself so I could claw back some points.

I'm looking forward to the same close competition again this year.

HD laptimes are easy to get quicker, just ride on the yellow pit lines, they say you can't and there is penaltys at riders breifing, but just miss breifing and your all go............as Tri Series runs.......video evidence of cheating dont mean jack shit as well

[tail_end_charlie]

How's that gonna work Frosty? Is MNZ gonna buy a Dyno? At what atmospheric conditions? 76hp at altitude at Taupo or sea level at Teretonga?

Edit: not to mention folks just go chasing a fatter and fatter midrange, with faster spin up/less gyro forces with cams, lightened internals etc. So it becomes just another spendathon as everyone has to ante up for Ti rods, lightened cranks, aftermarket cams etc or they can't compete.

What!?!? Racing is a spendathon? Oh shit, no-one has told me that before. I guess 'Pro-twins' is to 'cheap racing' as 'jumbo shrimp' is to 'oxymoron'.

The more you rules that you instigate to control the amount of spending on a racebike, the more you have to police the rules. A rule not enforced is a rule not followed. So any ideas about how to curtail the modifications (ie, the amount of money spent) on Pro-twins needs to come with a example of how to enforce that rule.

Limit the engine mods ==> Need to examine the engine internals on a random basis to ensure compliance.

Limit HP ==> Dyno each bike prior to race.

Limit the $ spent on a bike build ==> Access to the person's complete finacials (and that of their wife/partner, family, friends, coworkers, ect ect)

Hell you could go the Moto2 route and produce an sealed engine package for Pro-twins that everone who wanted to race the class would have to buy. But who's going to build the engines to spec? How do you price them? Who services them? What happens when one goes bang? And most importantly, whose going to organize and foot the bill????


Motorcyclists in general are not the most likely group of people to follow the rules..........so to expect them to do so without checking them is as good as pissing into the wind.

[MarcusWyatt]

one of the main problems I think is that penalities are so rare in our sport that when one is applied that everyone thinks they are victimised and normally come back with "everyone always does it"

Well, I got disqualified from the Pro-Twin Race 1 on Saturday (AMCC Rnd 3) for crossing touching the pit entry line... hahaha....

So stop stirring this pot now guys....lol...

So by the way, does anybody know why that race was red flagged?

[Drew]

So by the way, does anybody know why that race was red flagged?

Cheating cunts I reckon.

[Mental Trousers]

Well, I got disqualified from the Pro-Twin Race 1 on Saturday (AMCC Rnd 3) for crossing touching the pit entry line... hahaha....

Was that a couple of hundred metres before you snuck past me to steal a place just short of the finish line?? If so - hahahahahaha

[Drew]

Was that a couple of hundred metres before you snuck past me to steal a place just short of the finish line?? If so - hahahahahaha

What the fuck were you doing in a pro twins race?

[Mental Trousers]

What the fuck were you doing in a pro twins race?

Ah whoops. It was the F3 race he passed me just before the line. Forgot Pro Twins were running separately on Saturday

[Drew]

Ah whoops. It was the F3 race he passed me just before the line. Forgot Pro Twins were running separately on Saturday

Why the fuck was a pro twin going past you?

[Mental Trousers]

Why the fuck was a pro twin going past you?

Pro Twins @ AMCC is ANY twin.

[Drew]

Pro Twins @ AMCC is ANY twin.

Oh yeah, I should have remembered that. I used to race the 749 in it.